P: Controlling the base profile with the Profile slider

[raphael_matto]

Currently, when I choose any Profile or a Preset in Adobe Camera Raw, and move the slider from 100 to 0, the Adobe Standard v2 profile is revealed as the "base" profile. Is there a way to control which profile is the base profile? If not, I'd like to request that as a feature—I think it'd be very powerful to be able to mix two user-defined profiles, or a user-defined preset and user-defined profile, instead of always having Adobe Standard v2 lurking underneath. Thanks!

[deejjjaaaa]

yes, if you work with XMP profile-preset then it is a text file that references actual DCP camera profile by name... change it to whatever DCP camera profile you want.

[raphael_matto]

Thanks for the reply @deejjjaaaa, but the profile name referenced in the XMP is not the "base" profile, but rather the selected profile. So my feature request stands!

[deejjjaaaa]

when you see for example "Adobe Color" in ACR/LR UI this XMP profile-preset is used :

C:\ProgramData\Adobe\CameraRaw\Settings\Adobe\Profiles\Adobe Raw\Adobe Color.xmp

inside :

[quote]

crs:CameraProfile="Adobe Standard"

[end quote]

this is the actual DCP camera profile on top of which XMP profile-preset operates

also 

[quote]

crs:SupportsAmount="False"

[end quote]

controls the slider you want : enabled / disabled

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if you take a look at some other XMP files, you can find tags like

crs:CameraProfile="Default Profile"

that let ACR/LR to select whatever was designated as base DCP profile elsewhere ( not in XMP itself )

and there some other tags of certain importance 

---

https://download.adobe.com/pub/adobe/lightroom/profile-sdk/ACR_and_Lightroom_Profile_SDK.zip


take a look @ PDF doc inside .zip

it goes deeper and provides more nuances like for example, quote :

What happens if there is no specified DCP base?

If you don’t specify a DCP base, your profile can be available for both raw and non-raw images. If
applied to a raw image, it will still need a DCP in order to render. In those cases, it will use
the default DCP for that image. For many images, that will be Adobe Standard; even if the user has
specified a custom default profile for that camera model, enhanced profiles will still use Adobe
Standard rather than that custom default.

For cameras that do not have Adobe Standard profiles, the base DCP will likely be an
embedded profile.

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so create your own XMP profile-preset ( just in case Adobe calls that Enhanced Profile ) and base it on your own (or canned) DCP camera profile and enable the slider to control the amount between "base" DCP camera profile of choice and your own "sauce" on top of it

[raphael_matto]

Fantastic information, thank you @deejjjaaaa.

Tldr, it's wonderful to be able to control the base profile—and not just for mixing between profiles—I've found the 100% rendering of the primary profile looks different (& much better in most cases!), too, which was a surprise. But there are major issues.

I still have a bunch to read, here's what I learned so far from a practical pov:

I can set some camera matching profiles as the base profile, but not all, and none of the Adobe profiles. E.g., I'm working with a Nikon Z6 and can choose Camera Flat v2 / Camera Landscape v2 / Camera Neutral v2 / etc as the base, but can not choose Camera Binary / Camera Beach / Camera Blue / etc. In the ACR interface, the difference between those ^ camera matching profile types is: profiles that have sliders enabled vs those that don't. I don't know yet the actual technical difference between those types.

To actually choose a base profile in a new profile, select the profile you want to use as the base, hold down the option key (mac), and choose Create Profile from the Profile dialog's hamburger menu. A new (previously invisibile) field appears called Camera Profile set to your selection. BUT, this is crazy buggy. Sometimes I had to open the Create Profile dialog multiple times for the field to appear, and sometimes the wrong profile was referenced. Instead, once I had one XMP profile created, it was much easier to edit that if I wanted to change the base profile. Here are the additional fields that were set in my working profile:

crs:SupportsOutputReferred="False"

crs:CameraModelRestriction="Nikon Z 6"

crs:CameraProfile="Camera Landscape v2"

crs:CameraProfileDigest="B7321137FB9E695FB658B43B665716A9"

I can change that to "Camera Neutral v2", but if I change it to "Adobe Landscape" the profile will not load. I tried removing the CameraProfileDigest, CameraModelRestriction, and SupportsOutputReferred fields one after another, but the profile remained "broken."

From a high-level pov, I'd much rather be able to change the base profile per image via the ACR interface, rather than per profile. Otherwise, I'm going to end up with a gazillion profiles. So, my feature request stands. But this is a lot of fun in the meantime, & I'll have a more thorough read through that PDF to try & understand why some profiles are valid bases & others are not. Or, fingers crossed, learn how I can use all the profiles as bases.

[deejjjaaaa]

> if I change it to "Adobe Landscape"

this is __not__ DCP camera profile... it is already XMP profile-preset itself !

"Camera Neutral v2" is DCP camera profile

do you understand the difference between (A) DCP { .dcp binary files in DNG/TIFF container } camera profiles and (B) XMP { .xmp files - text files } profile-presets ( enhanced profiles ) ?

[deejjjaaaa]

> Otherwise, I'm going to end up with a gazillion profiles. S

when you need "a gazillion" of something then apparently you have a problem in how you want to approach to solve your problems and in many case the tools are not to blame ...  

[raphael_matto]

@deejjjaaaa thanks again for your help!

Drat, the forum ate my homework; I re-read the pdf & wrote up a nice post. I'll just repeat my questions/conclusions:

1. Where can I find the Adobe and camera-specific (Nikon) DCP files? That will at least give me a list of profiles I can use as a base (XMP & DCP profiles are indistinguishable in the ACR interface).

2. Where can I find the Adobe hsv .csv look tables? It sounds like utilizing those will let me build on top of the Adobe Landscape / Adobe Vivid, etc looks—since DCPs don't exist for those.

3. My goal of using a ColorChecker to create color-accurate device specific profiles to apply .cube-based profiles on top of and blend to will likely work.

4. My other goal—blending two .cube-based film simulation profiles—is not possible in ACR & is more suited to a compositing app ... since it's likely not possible to convert .cube files to either look tables or device specific DCPs.

[deejjjaaaa]

> 1. Where can I find the Adobe and camera-specific (Nikon) DCP files? 

search your file system

>  Where can I find the Adobe hsv .csv look tables?

decompile them yourself or google may be ( I doubt ) somebody did your homework for you and posted 

> 3. My goal of using a ColorChecker to create ___color-accurate___ device specific profiles

Are you sure you are qualified to do this at this stage ( that is before the fact that using a limited/few pigments - limited patches target that has like one patch outside of sRGB gamut to even think about building "color-accurate" anything is a strange thought , granted some people have something else in mind when they say "color-accurate" )... you are asking questions like where to find Adobe's .DCP camera profiles on your own computer ? seriously ? you are not able to execute a search yourself ?