Introducing Adobe Substance 3D Stager and Dimension update!

[JMathews]

Hi everyone!  Jeanette here, lead product manager for Dimension.  It's been a little while since I've had an announcement for the community, but I'm very happy to be able to break the silence on some exciting news.

Today we launched a new application - Adobe Substance 3D Stager!  Stager is built by the same team that built Dimension with a shared foundation for some technology while also being a bit reimagined.  Where Dimension was a general purpose application that was intended for those new to 3D to learn, Stager is a dedicated scene staging application that is more powerful for professional 3D artists while retaining it's approachability for those learning 3D.

So what are some of the key differences between Dimension and Stager?

• Dimension was more general purpose where Stager is specifically part of the new Substance 3D Collection which offers multiple applications for an end-to-end 3D workflow including modeling, texturing, and staging.
• The rendering engine has been updated and reworked to the Adobe Mercury Rendering Engine.  This engine is multi-technique, including both real time and ray tracing in a single engine.  It is built with entire new infrastructure for modernizing techniques, improving performance and scaling to be available on more hardware.
• Stager's material system has been updated for a new version of the Adobe Standard Material definition with tons of new effects like displacement, subsurface scattering, dispersion, clear coat, sheen, anisotropy, and more.
• Stager includes a variety of general new staging features including collision based layout, multi-camera resolution outputs, physical lights, and much more.

What does this mean for Dimension?

• Dimension will continue to be available as part of Creative Cloud All Apps plans - there is no change to it's availability!  To see Dimension Creative Cloud desktop go to settings > apps > and enable "Show older apps" setting.
• Dimension doesn't have any major planned releases right now  - we'll be putting new features into Stager, but we will provide support updates for Dimension!
• You can open Dimension files in Stager to take advantage of all the new features - also try Stager out for a full 30 day free trial!

Want to learn more about everything?  Check out some of these resources:

• Adobe.com 3D & Augmented Reality page
• Adobe.com Substance 3D Stager page

We're really excited about the opportunity to build a new family of 3D applications that work seamlessly to provide an end-to-end experience for modeling, texturing, and staging 3D models and scenes and we hope you enjoy the new Substance 3D Stager app!

--

Edit: 8/17

Thank you all for the great conversation on Dimension and Stager.  It's clear there's a lot of passion and excitement for amazing staging apps, and I take my duty to the community seriously.  Please know that all of your concerns about pricing, confusion on the Dimension status, and Stager future, have been escalated to our leadership teams and we're working on some possible improvements!

Here's a round up of the latest information based on some questions and discussion that have happened in various threads:

Dimension

• Dimension is still part of Creative Cloud All Apps plan.
• Dimension is currently hidden by deafult on Creative Cloud Desktop.
• To see Dimension you must go to CCD > Preference > Apps > and enable "Show older apps"
• The "Show older apps" option may be disabled by administrators for education and enterprise organizations.
• We are actively working to REVERSE this so that Dimension is not hidden, as it is confusing and inaccurate.
• Update 8/19: This is now reversed!  Dimension is available by default and you no longer need to enable "Show older apps".
• Dimension is NOT end-of-lifed, but we are not working on new features for it (at this time).

Stager

• Stager is exclusive to the Substance 3D Collection plan. 
• There are currently not any single app plans for Substance apps - we are investigating this possibility!
• It is not currently planned that any Substance apps will be added to the CC All Apps plans.
• HOWEVER, the exception is that Substance 3D Collection is free for those with CC All Apps for Higher Education.
• HOWEVER, the limitation is that Substance 3D Collection for Higher Education is available for Shared Device Licensing (SDL) and Feature Restricted Licensing (FRL).  It is not yet available for Named User Licensing (NUL).
• We hope to work on Named User Licensing for Higher Edu support, but I don't have a clear timeline on that.  It's months at least.  Unfortunately there's little we can do to accellerate this.  Adobe licensing land is a bit complicated and we have people working on it!

As always I try to be as transparent as possible with the community, but there's limits to what I can say on a public forum.  Everything is subject to change, and I will do my best to communicate as we move forward!

[Marcus Liassides]

@JMathews - Your post above is dated June 23, 2021 (less than a month ago), which suggested that Dimensions will continue to be available in my Creative Cloud plan. I have tried for the last week to install it on a new laptop but keep being told that Dimensions is no longer available. I have chatted to Support, and it was probably the least helpful support contact I have ever had (I expect more from Adobe). I have numerous .dn files that I need to access and update, and Dimensions was a key reason for subscribing to the Creative Cloud plan in the first place. It seems a very poor decision to completely remove the product (even though your post suggests otherwise) and then require users to pay an additional $39.99 a month to access their own files!!! I am getting nowhere with support (instead they're sending me to a community forum from 2018) so plan to cancel my subscription unless this is resolved quickly.

[ahazen1419]

Yeah it still is available. I recently purchsed a new computer and I was downloading all the programs updates and it's nested soemwhere in a category called "old programs." I had to call customer service and get a real person on the phone to do it for me. I wish I could remember wher it was but you should be able to get someone in customer service to download it for you.

[JMathews]

Hi Marcus!  Sincere apologies for your experience with support.  I've reached out to be sure they are clear on the correct information.

Dimension is still available as part of Creative Cloud All Apps plan.  It is hidden in Creative Cloud Desktop app however.  To see it you will need to enable this by

• Opening Creative Cloud desktop app
• Click on the profile picture and open preferences
• In the preferences navigate to Apps > Show older apps

If you are part of a managed organization your account administrator may have the show older apps setting disabled for your organization.  For individuals it should always be available.

[nickh25960560]

so im litrally talking to an adobe support person now about this and he links me here, so i bring my rant upon you nice people. 

I pay for all apps, this should, weirdly enough include all the apps adobe make. Othewise i don't pay for access to all the apps, the subscription should be more accurately renamed to "Most Apps" 

i see an excuse in the comments from the project lead explainig that keeping substance 3D seperate from the all app subscription makes sense as not all designers use the 3D based apps. A very valid point in 2006, however the designer will be saddened to learn that its 2021 and having access to an application like substance 3D will be important for many designers who also like me, frequently switch between most adobe apps. 

Further to another claim made my the project lead, that Dimention would remain available, it is now hidden by default as the support rep told me "it is no longer supported" this app will quickly be let behind, leaving me no option but to increase my bill with adobe. 

honetsly adobe, do you actually have a brainstorming sesh to figure out how you are going to annoy your customers? Theres some real talent for that.

[ahazen1419]

One month of us ALL not paying their CC bill just might bring Adobe to their senses, no? This is the begininnig of a trend no doubt. Bring a quad of new programs online and oops! Gotta charge other $40!!!

[Luke5E6A]

Its been well over the 3 weeks stated for Substance programs to be included within University level packages and mine still hasn't changed any updates??????

[eib4]

Thank you for the information.

Oh boy, oh boy, this reminds me of good old "Fruityloops pricing." Imageline only handled her maneuvers better. Fruityloops (now FL Studio) provided beginners with an intuitive entrance to making computer music. Once the program was paid for, future upgrades were free for the rest of your life. Kind of. The program was then divided into different editions. Basic, producer, advanced and ALL features edition. Upgrades to the Basic version have remained free, but if you want to go further, you must either invest in a completely different sequencer or buy at least the Producer edition. I bought Logic Pro.
Dimension has been for me a similar entrance to the 3D world of what Fruityloops was to the world of computer music. And now if I want to go further, I have to move to a more advanced 3D program, or pay for Stager, which is like an updated version of Dimension with a new price tag. Still my subscription text says that Creative Cloud All Apps. When did this change? And why?

[Luke5E6A]

I've discovered that my school is on the enterprise plan and not the education plan. This ruins everything as I'm now unable to use substance stager again. The price you are asking for is very large. I hope you can consider separating the programs allowing user to only purchase stager as like me it's many people's main 3d program. I've used the trial and will admit its a beautiful piece of software especially the ray tracing but it's just too expensive especially for someone like me. 😞

[JMathews]

Thank you!  I've brought up the request for a single app plan so it could be purchased separate from the entire collection.

[ian_rogers]

I get it, Substance is much more powerful and has tons of features BUT for those of us that have been using Dimension as a basic tool for years it's a bit of a slap in the face to be deprecated so quickly. 
I actually teach using Dimension and about a third of my students can't even install it now, only a month after Substance has been released. I'm teaching simple packaging design as one project in a course, my students don't have the time or need to learn a complex new set of programs.
My program is heavily invested in CC but I think I'll be switching this project to Blender.

[JMathews]

If your students have Creative Cloud All Apps they should still be able to install Dimension.  Open Creative Cloud Desktop and go to the preferences > apps > show older apps.

However, Dimension and Stager are both unavailable on M1 devices right now.  We're actively working on this, but if your students have M1 machines, they will not be able to use Dimension/Stager at all, regardless of the "show older apps" flag being enabled.

[ian_rogers]

This is what we ended up doing for today - except the ones using new computers with the M1 chip anyhow. Regardless, since Stager is effectively that Dimension update we were all led to expect AND costs more on top of the all-apps subscription (which is especially onerous for students and beginning designers), Blender is probably our best bet- especially as it already runs on M1.

[JMathews]

Substance 3D products are included in Creative Cloud All Apps for higher education (NOT K-12).  So depending on what level you're at and if your students are getting their CC through the EDU plan at your school, you may have full access to Stager.  If it's individually purchased per student, then they would need to buy the second subscription right now, true.

[timothyBellarch]

I wonder where Adobe is with student access to Stager with the EDU all-access plan? The last I saw, there were still some issues with this on Adobe's end and the hope was to have it resolved soon.

[Roy 3D]

So you opened a newly charged category and ruined the current dimension app to create a migration to the new 3D subscription plan with extra payment. good classic capitalism. I'm waiting for you to call me back for a week. Until now, no one has solved my case. Your app damaged my Mac and the graphic card update. I'm in a middle of a huge project, and no one is taking responsibility for the damaged you caused.

I practically begged you to open the new app to finish by my deadline, but no support from your side. Also, you have mentioned that you never heard about this problem. But with a small scroll on the community page, you can quickly notice it's happened to a lot of people during the last weeks.

So thank you for damaging my and others' work. I will definitely not recommend the Adobe dimension app for people that want to integrate into the 3Dworld.
'and thank you for blocking with extra payment other artists and designers organic progress. As a company that educates on art and design, I could never expect this.

[cssfineart]

This is just an absolute slap in the face.

I have been using Dimension for almost two years now, and it has provided exactly what I need for pattern illustration for three-dimensional beadweaving. I've suffered through major crashes, set timers because of lack of auto-save, given feedback as often as possible, and paid how much per month (using very few other applications just to have this app put on the shelf and the expectation to dish out EVEN MORE to continue using what is effectively the next version of the same thing—with features I guarantee I will never need!

Please please please consider keeping Dimension active as an entry-level program, but actually update it to keep up with systems. I'm now dreading the day when my Intel macs reach their end and am stuck having to cough up more money each month to pay for features I don't need just to continue my work (since you've said elsewhere there are no plans to get Dimension running on Apple Silicon).

Thanks Adobe for yet another disappointment.

[Memphis1981]

Thank you for all the work your team does! If there is one thing Dimension is lacking, it is the abilty to ouput a fly-around video. 3d just becomes 2D when you render it. I would love to be able to set a start camera position and an end camera position and output a video. To be able to show others what I see when I orbit. A timeline, something akin to After Effects. Start here and by the time you get to this point on the timeline the camera position is here. That all made sense in my head. LOL! Does that sound like anything that Stager will be capable of? Thank you again!

[JMathews]

Animation is definitely something we see as part of the vision for Stager!

[Ussnorway]

what you decribe is a camera track and that is not really animation but most basic 3D software; Unity, Unreal, Iclone [what I would use], Blender or even Photoshop [very limited]

[bryanua]

Interestingly, Adobe sent me an email this week asking for me to "Help us improve Adobe Dimension" by asking me "How likely are you to recommend Adobe Dimension to a friend or colleague?"

I gave a zero as Dimension has been announced (and is already being treated) as if it's gone. Why would I recommend it to a friend or colleague at this point? I'd just be setting them up for the same frustration so many of us on here are feeling. I left in my comments a link to this thread for my feedback and asked (once again) for Adobe to listen to our feedback by visiting this thread, hearing our concerns and offering a viable solution, in a timely manner. I just registered for Adobe MAX, please don't make us wait until the reveals just to be let down further, at an event that I'm sure many of us look forward to in excitement.

Unfortunately, I've personally tried to stay away from this thread myself as I get more frustrated every time I get an email that an update has been posted or if I find on other message boards from years past that people have been expressing interests and their hopes for the future of the app, but have ultimately been let down repeatedly.

[JMathews]

Hi everyone!  An update for all - Dimension is no longer hidden on Creative Cloud desktop.  You do not need to enable show older apps and it should have reappeared in your app list if it wasn't showing before.  If it's not showing, try logging out and back in and restarting Creative Cloud Desktop.

I want to apologize for the frustration with that!  We moved as fast as we could to fix it and hope you continue to enjoy Dimension!

[Josua5EC8]

Well that's funny, because today I found this from Adobe explaining, why Photoshop's 3D features are being discontinued: https://helpx.adobe.com/photoshop/kb/3d-faq.html?mv=affiliate&mv2=red 

Even if you said it clearly about Dimension: At least, I can finally be sure that no matter how big our worries or complaints may be, there was not even a hint of intention, to equip Dimension with some new features, in the first place. So the impression was only created that, with enough resistance, Adobe would give in. But that was just a tactic, to raise false hopes and soften up customers to push them more easily to Substance.

Now, with Adobe discontinuing 3D Features from Photoshop, I have lost all reasons to use CC in the long term.

So now the decision is made: Tomorrow I will enjoy a strong coffee for breakfast and my first to do task will be, to cancel my Creative Cloud subscription (luckily there are only 2 months left). Now, I will invest my money in various alternatives and make sure to avoid subscription software.

[Ian Dack]

Not only losing Dimension but losing functionality from Photoshop. Where is our price cut or discount for this loss of value in the subscription?

[Josua5EC8]

I have now cancelled my CC-Subscription! Even had to pay the famous cancellation-fee to Adobe. But it was worth it! With the move Adobe made in the past, regarding Dimension and removing Photoshop's 3D Feature in order to push customers more aggresively to subscribe to additional Suite of Apps, which should have already been included in the All-Apps Plan, I no longer see good, viable reasons to use Adobe Apps in the long run.

Unfortunately, we have seen this behavior from Adobe too many times in the past. First, useful tools are introduced that want to keep up with the times (also because of the competition), then another program is created that contains most of the basic features, the customers are first happy, and at the latest, when a rich set of upgrades are made or the potential of a software is not fully exploited, the program is discontinued, or it turns out that another program or service will replace the previous one, but will not be included in the previous package!

No question, many Adobe Apps are really powerful! But the way Adobe deals with customers and open standards is anything but satisfactory. So far, you can only find lazy compromises! So if you not only rely on Adobe apps, but also on additional software programs, you will quickly find out that additional plugins (mostly from third parties) are often necessary to speed up work processes. All this, just to grant a better integration with other programs in the way of working. This also costs additional money, which is usually only available in the form of an additional subscription.

With Adobe Dimension in particular, I had hoped to have found a way to make it easier to work between Adobe apps and external apps. Adobe again only makes that possible here with another barrier. Namely by subscribing to an additional suite!

Also, the inability to create more flexible offers (e.g. instead of an all-inclusive plan with 20+ apps, an offer where you can pick 10 apps for half the price on the all-app plan).

What I'm looking for is long-term continuity and reliability. It's the actions that matter, not half-empty promises with new glitzy and sparkly tools around the corner. I'm too old for this whiz-bang crap. I'm not paying you to make me the subject of an experiment that will cause shareholders to have permanent erections! Adobe has played this game too many times and thus gambled away my trust. I am aware that the team of developers behind the programs have little influence on the pricing and development of future programs, as they too, are subordinate to Adobe's boards of directors. So, I don't blame it on them!

I am glad that the situation in the market is very different than it was 10 years ago. To all others I wish good luck and can only advise to have a back-up plan as a way out, if Adobe continues to go this way.

The last thing I have to say to Adobe is: Nope, I don't play this crap anymore and I don't need you anymore! You reap what you sow! Goodbye!

[bryanua]

Hey folks, just an update on my end, since we're not really getting anything helpful from Adobe. I've been experiencing consistent issues with Dimension (just starting this week) wherein I'm getting the attached error "A problem caused the application to stop working correctly." with no other explanation or help or steps to take. I've reached out to support twice, screenshared with them twice. Have sent them 2 different particular Dimension files that I've experienced this issue with (one 1.53GB and one simply 35.3MB) and have shared my log files. I lost A LOT of time and work and I've still gotten no explanation. I've also reached out to Apple to confirm that my graphics drivers are up-to-date and also Boxshot whose Origami plugin for Illustrator I used to create some OBJ models. Both Apple and Boxshot say everything is good from their hardware/software, so that leaves Adobe.

I'm not thrilled this week. The rep from Boxshot also mentioned that their Boxshot 5 app actually does much of what Dimension does (and I believe more, including things that I think many of us were waiting for before Dimension was announced to be dropped for Substance, like modeling, animations and batch rendering!) and have been doing it longer. It's another cost (currently $319 for a year license), but if it's going to be more reliable, functional and their support more responsive, than it sounds like it may be worth the price.

Adobe, again, please take note, I am an existing, long-time paying customer and I'm starting to look elsewhere for solutions and support that are going to allow me to do what I need to do to earn my living!