Adobe Expression Web 4 replacement recommendation

[60067]

I have a historical WWII website and have been using Adobe Expression Web 4 for many years.  The website is nothing fancy. I don't sell anything or require any user accounts or log in.  I mostly just index and post historical documents.  Expression Web 4 works fine with older versions of Windows, up until Windows 11.  It does "sort of" work on Windows 11, but if you try to add a link (a feature I frequently use) Expressions Web just shuts down.  Planning ahead for the day when Expressions Web 4 stops working altogether, I'm looking for another webpage editing/building program.

Ideally, I would like something easy to use without a huge learning curve. When creating new webpages, I basically just edit existing web pages and add new text and links.  I would appreciate either suggestions on what program to buy - or if there is a way to get Expression Web 4 to work with Windows 11.  Here is a link to my website so you can get an idea of what I need.  Thanks for any suggestions.

134th Infantry Regiment Website 

[Nancy OShea]

Switch to WordPress.  The learning bar is such that it can be used by teens, adults & seniors.  No coding skills required.  

WordPress is the affordable option used by millions of websites worldwide.  Most reputable hosting plans support it.  Many hosts have one-click WP installation from the server's Plesk, WHM or c-Panel.  Once WP is  installed, you can begin using it immediately to build your new website. 

Best of all, WP is database driven so site visitors can easily search for content by topic, title, keyword, date, author, etc...  That's something static sites can't do. 

Getting Started with WordPress

https://codex.wordpress.org/Getting_Started_with_WordPress

[Nancy OShea]

Any desktop software recommendations will require good coding & web skills. These days, there's no single tool that can do everything.  I use Dreamweaver CC for coding and site management alongside other tools.

CODE TUTORIALS:
- https://www.w3schools.com/html/
- https://www.w3schools.com/css/
- https://www.w3schools.com/js/

CODE EDITORS:
-- Adobe Dreamweaver CC - https://www.adobe.com/products/dreamweaver.html
-- Codespaces (free, browser-based) - https://github.com/features/codespaces
-- Nova (Mac only, formerly called Coda) - https://nova.app/
-- Pinegrow - https://pinegrow.com/
-- Sublime Text - http://www.sublimetext.com/
-- Visual Studio Code (free) - https://code.visualstudio.com/

Hope that helps.

[60067]

I watched a few WordPress how-to videos and it seems geared more toward creating new visually attractive websites rather than just maintaining older sites. I may be wrong, but I got the impression that in order to use WordPress I would have to convert all the existing web pages.  Honestly, I am not that ambitious.  I was hoping to keep it simple - which may not be possible.  I do appreciate the suggestions - so thank you.

[Nancy OShea]

Visual appeal aside, any WP Theme can provide that (free or premium). 

Data that can't be searched & accessed easily is useless.  Maybe you can enlist volunteers to copy & paste content into WordPress & add titles and keywords for you.   You can give them editing permission to add content with WordPress while retaining admin status for yourself and one other person to supervise.  The whole point of using WordPress is for its functionality as well as collaboration.

The alternative would be to white paper the site.  Convert pages to PDF files with Acrobat.  People could then download documents to their devices & search its contents with Acrobat or free Acrobat Reader.

Anyway, good luck.

[L e n a]

If you just need to maintain old web site, by adding some content, links and pages as it goes... don't mess you up, you will have two main choices, among many others,...

1 - You could install a Virtual Machine using W10, it's really easy, and that way you could still use your old Expression Web and stay in a familair environement... until it wont work anymore at all...

- https://www.oracle.com/virtualization/technologies/vm/downloads/virtualbox-downloads.html

- https://www.virtualbox.org/manual/ch01.html#create-vm-wizard

(it's really easy to handle, and all is free)

2 - Or you can stay in W11, with no need of a virtual machine, you will then use VSC instead of Expression Web, https://code.visualstudio.com/Download

Then you will need to install an FTP client as https://marketplace.visualstudio.com/items?itemName=Natizyskunk.sftp

To get ready to start, you can watch https://code.visualstudio.com/docs/introvideos/basics

[60067]

Thanks for the suggestions.  I'll check those out.

[Ben M]

Expression Web was a Microsoft product not an Adobe one. Adobe has had Dreamweaver, GoLive, and Muse. As stated, going to Wordpress or a hosted solution like Wix may be best in your case.

[rayek.elfin]

I have to chime in here, because I do not understand why WordPress is suggested as an answer to the OP's question. WordPress is fine, but in this particular case the OP's website consists of very simple styled, mostly text-based collections of pages with links and a few images: an archive, just as the OP mentioned.

To then direct him to WordPress is, in my opinion, questionable and counter-productive. WordPress would require a complete overhaul of the site and is complete overkill in this case. It's not what the OP wants or needs in my opinion.

Instead, the OP merely needs a simple visual web page editor to replace Microsoft Expression Web. Therefore, I would recommend BlueGriffon http://bluegriffon.org

That's all he needs to continue to work on the site. There is even an free FTP addon which allows for uploading the pages directly to the webhost. The base software is free, and should suffice for his needs.

As @Nancy OShea pointed out, BlueGriffon is no longer developed, so it wouldn't be correct to recommend it at this point in time. The only visual web page editor still available for desktop that is worth it would be PineGrow in my opinion, but it is rather expensive and somewhat overkill for a simple website like this one.

https://pinegrow.com/

Otherwise, a static page CMS might be worth checking out, but it requires some set up on the server side. But many of these are poorly developed nowadays too.

@60067If I may make a few suggestions to improve the overall usability of your website:

Add the following five lines of CSS in your content_script.css file at the beginning of the code to the body tag rule:

body {

        (existing code is --fbc- prefixed lines: keep these)

             max-width: 60rem;
             margin: 2rem auto;

             padding: 0 3rem;
             font-size: 1.15rem;
             line-height: 1.6;
}

}

This will restrict the maximum width on larger screens and improve readability as well as usability. It will also improve how your site works on desktop & larger screens and center the main content for larger screens, as well as add additional margins at the sides to improve the readability on smaller screens. It also increases the type size and leading a smite, improving overall legibility and readability.

Secondly, find and remove all local <font size=""></font> tags and allow the CSS to do the job is was meant to do: style your content. the <font> tag is extremely outdated and deprecated: used before the advent of CSS to style text.

[Nancy OShea]

Sites that deal with historical content such as WWII, Vietnam, etc... really should be organized for future use.  Content should be easy to find & searchable.  The project will likely require collaborators now & in the future.  Since none of us will live forever, my recommendation to use WordPress is a long term solution rather than a quick fix to a short term problem of finding a new code editor. 

AFAIK, the BlueGriffon project ended.  Like Kompozer, there's been no recent development of the Nvu-based editors for awhile.   I took them off my short list of alternatives along with Atom.

[rayek.elfin]

Thinking it a bit over, I do agree with you for the most part. And yes, I assumed BlueGriffon was still updated, but activity on the project has stopped since 2019. My bad!

I suppose the site could be easily maintained with Pinegrow, but that seems overkill again.

WordPress could be a solution, but again I question if it isn't preferable to use a static page CMS rather than relying on a database server in this case.

[rayek.elfin]

To be honest, I'd just use Visual Studio Code and update the site like that in this case. But the OP probably lacks the html/css skillset to do so.

It's interesting how WYSIWYG web page editing desktop software is now pretty much dead, except for PineGrow. Even Dreamweaver's development has stopped, which leaves only PineGrow as a serious tool with WYSIWYG capabilities.

[60067]

Thanks for all the suggestions. Yes, my area of interest and knowlege is history (I am a historian for an Army Infantry Division Association) and not coding or website development. My goal is to make this historical information and these documents available at no cost to all who are interested. I know some basic HTML coding, but that's about it. Because this research and website is self-funded, I don't see hiring anyone to administer it as a possiblilty (although I am sure a professional could do a much better job).

That said - I really do appreciate all the feed back and suggestions. I wish some company would come up with a basic code editing program like Expression Web 4. I can't believe I'm the only person out there who would gladly pay for and use it. 

[BenPleysier]

For about $20.65 per month, have a look at the basic version of Wappler.

[BenPleysier]

To be honest, I'd just use Visual Studio Code and update the site like that in this case. But the OP probably lacks the html/css skillset to do so.

By @rayek.elfin

This has been my thought as well. Free of charge and does an excellent job.

It's interesting how WYSIWYG web page editing desktop software is now pretty much dead, except for PineGrow. Even Dreamweaver's development has stopped, which leaves only PineGrow as a serious tool with WYSIWYG capabilities.

By @rayek.elfin

I would like to add another contender in this space, a low code editor named Wappler. This is what Dreamweaver could have been had they listened to real web developers.

I have been silent throughout this discussion until now. My silence was due to the fact that I was in two minds, 

• as @rayek.elfin has said, leave the site as is and use Visual Studio Code for the maintenance
• as @Nancy OShea has said, future proof the site

Being a seasoned Wappler user, I see great promise in applying the latter. This could be achieved with very little coding, if any, making for a fast development time.

[Nancy OShea]

The industry has shifted away from site building software to online APIs, CMS & PWA sites. Site building software as we knew it is on the extinction list which is hard for some folks to wrap their heads around.  It's a testament to how complicated the web has become for solo developers. 

I watched as Muse & GoLive users shouted from roof tops when Adobe ended their life.  But most users recovered with help from Elementor Web Builder for WordPress and never looked back.

[rayek.elfin]

Thinking about this more today. Perhaps a flat-file content management system such as Grav may be a good solution for the OP.

https://getgrav.org/

No database required, and still a modern and simple-to-use website CMS.

The existing html pages could be easily converted to Markdown files, which are then directly used as pages in Grav.

Creating and editing pages is a pleasant visual experience, similar to WordPress.

[rayek.elfin]

I tested and opened the 134th Infantry Regiment Website in the Pinegrow Web Editor, and @60067 I believe you could easily replace Expression Web with Pinegrow. It will allow you to continue working with the site as you do now.

The workflow is similar to Expression Web: load the local project folder (File-->Open Project), switch to the file tree in the left panel, browse the file tree to explore pages for editing. Create new pages in the file menu.

The editor is WYSIWYG. Coding is not required.

Pinegrow has no issues loading and editing all your @60067 pages for editing. It works intuitively if you are coming from Expression Web.

Since you are a non-profit, you may be eligible for a 50% discount.

https://pinegrow.com/docs/licensing-questions/students-teachers-ngos-and-npos/

[BenPleysier]

This is what I see when using Wappler:

[60067]

Thanks!  I'm going to watch some of the "how-to" videos.  This looks like it might work for me.  

[rayek.elfin]

Don't forget to check out Pinegrow together with Visual Code as well.

This is what I see in Pinegrow:

In a sense it is equivalent to a visual editor like Web Expression. But updated to the web's current standards.

This is what I see using Pinegrow and Visual Studio Code (free download) linked together with Code's addon to work on the code and visual editor. This adds FTP, versioning, database inspection, and loads more project functionality via VS Code's addons.

I think it is fair to compare Pinegrow with Wappler within the context of your project.

First, obviously Wappler is quite expensive compared and only available as a subscription service: US$325 per year for non-profits. To keep using it requires paying that amount every year. It adds up quickly.

Pinegrow is available as a perpetual license with updates for 1 year at US$76 for non-profits or as a subscription service for US$52 per year for non-profits.

Purchasing a perpetual license means your Pinegrow will continue to work after the 1 year of free updates ends.
The difference in costs is markedly clear. That said, Wappler offers a full visual database-driven app environment, which goes far beyond static website development.

Visual Studio Code and the Pinegrow plugin for it are free if you prefer a more serious coding environment and wish to have a wide range of project related functionality tagged on top of your workflow with Pinegrow (ftp, dealing with databases, project management, git versioning, and much, MUCH more).

As far as features go, as I mentioned above: the main difference is that Wappler offers database connectivity and visual database component / server side development features. It also provides built-in FTP and site management features.

Pinegrow focuses on a true visual WYSIWYG web page editing experience instead: Wappler's visual editing experience doesn't quite keep up with Pinegrow. Pinegrow also supports a broader set of front-end technologies.

While Wappler provides more site management features, using Pinegrow in tandem with the free Visual Studio Code and a couple of addons these site management options can be easily added to your Pinegrow workflow. For example, an addon exists to automagically update the remote host with your local changes.

It depends on the project that you are working on which solution would be the most suitable one. Either product is great, but their focus is different. If you are looking to edit an existing site with an excellent visual editor, Pinegrow is probably a preferred choice. If you plan on converting your site to a database driven one and prefer to work within one application that includes FTP and versioning support (without for example integrating VS Code) Wappler is the better choice.

Pricing and licensing is where Pinegrow is rather more attractive, of course. What's more, I dislike renting my software and avoid it when and if I can. My Pinegrow app continued to work even when I paused the update last year, and I could still work with it in my projects. That would not have been possible if I had been using Wappler.

Anyway, they both have trials. Test drive both options before committing to either one.

----

(Oh, and I'd like to mention here that I detest having to log into software: Pinegrow doesn't require you to do that. Other apps like Adobe, Figma, AND Wappler do. It's become tiresome for me. Perhaps I am too old-school. 😉 )
PS Any app that proudly proclaims "a new easier login process" as one its main new features (Wappler 5) receives a queer look from me nowadays. Sigh.

[60067]

Just wanted to thank everyone again for the advice. I know its time consuming. You are all awesome!