Flexbox and Gridlayout

[Spider67]

Hello,

does the new Dreamweaver version support flexbox and CSS Grid layouts.

Thanks für your answer.

[W_J_T]

Hi Spider67​,

I can not speak on DW CC as others above, but wanted to point out that Pinegrow supports both FlexBox and CSS Grid. The Pro Version for Individuals is $99, version 5 should be surfacing soon with further features. You get one year of updates included along with reduced cost for renewals when needed, unlike Adobe's subscription model, Pinegrow will keep working.

It might help you for your needs as an alternative to DW and save you some money also, might be something to consider?

[pziecina]

W_J_T  wrote

Hi Spider67 ,

I can not speak on DW CC as others above, but wanted to point out that Pinegrow supports both FlexBox and CSS Grid. The Pro Version for Individuals is $99, version 5 should be surfacing soon with further features. You get one year of updates included along with reduced cost for renewals when needed, unlike Adobe's subscription model, Pinegrow will keep working.

It might help you for your needs as an alternative to DW and save you some money also, might be something to consider?

I did think of suggesting Pinegrow and Wappler, but both have terrible code editors in my opinion, and as the OP has said they want good code hinting etc, I decided not to recommend either.

[W_J_T]

Pinegrow watches open files, so you can use whatever code editor you desire. It has direct integration with Atom currently.

Code editing | Pinegrow Web Editor

We can certainly choose to find fault and shortcomings in all things and workflows if we desire. But it might get them further then DW CC based upon the initial criteria of wanting FlexBox and CSS Grid support. I just wanted to throw it out there for consideration if the OP had never seen nor heard of it.

[pziecina]

W_J_T  wrote

But it might get them further then DW CC based upon the initial criteria of wanting FlexBox and CSS Grid support. I just wanted to throw it out there for consideration if the OP had never seen nor heard of it.

cannot argue against that

[BenPleysier]

Because other editors have been mentioned, please let me add Wappler which shows the grid as

Although code hinting is included, like Pinegrow, there is no need to hand code as this video will show https://wapplerunwrapped.online/videoplayer.php?id=14

[osgood_]

BenPleysier  wrote

Because other editors have been mentioned, please let me add Wappler which shows the grid a

Although code hinting is included, like Pinegrow, there is no need to hand code as this video will show https://wapplerunwrapped.online/videoplayer.php?id=14

I agree, this OP sounds like they would benefit from using an editor such as Wappler or Pinegrow. If nothing else both make the process  of developing websites fun again for those with little regard for coding. Both will find a market at the lower level, maybe even myself iin time.

If l had to choose between the two l would go with Wappler as it harbours a lot of functionality BUT to appeal to a wider target market it needs to improve its coding environment considerably. Many of its current 'advanced' users are working in code view or have the necessity to go into code view so ignoring that side of the program is a mistake in my opinion.

As for Pinegrow. I never really got on with that myself as it has limited appeal given there is  not much advanced functionality but ideal for building static websites..

The pricing is similar although Wappler if you buy into the educational basic version, which includes freelancers, offers more bang for your bucks in my opinion

[W_J_T]

BenPleysier  wrote

Although code hinting is included, like Pinegrow, there is no need to hand code as this video will show https://wapplerunwrapped.online/videoplayer.php?id=14

Spider67​

For comparison, here is a video regarding Pinegrow Flexbox with Bootstrap 4 relative to the Wappler video of the same that Ben provided above. Of course Bootstrap is not needed to leverage Flexbox. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8C2YmT8cq7g

Here are some videos and info about the CSS Grid Visual Editor in Pinegrow also.

https://pinegrow.com/docs/css-grid/

[osgood_]

Looks good but all this clicking and draging stuff looks far more complicated to me than actually writing the code........hummm.

I  find that kind of weird because coming from a DTP background clicking and dragging is used as default. I just cant get used to it when creating websites but thats maybe on account in most cases l can write and sort out the code faster than l could by clicking and dragging.........l guess its what you know and if you come from a non coding bacground l guess click/drag is going to be faster and less complex.

[W_J_T]

osgood_​

W_J_T  wrote

We can certainly choose to find fault and shortcomings in all things and workflows if we desire. But it might get them further then DW CC based upon the initial criteria of wanting FlexBox and CSS Grid support.

[BenPleysier]

I think that this is worth going through, even when not using Pinegrow https://pinegrow.com/courses/learn-css-grid-with-pinegrow/

[pziecina]

BenPleysier  wrote

I think that this is worth going through, even when not using Pinegrow https://pinegrow.com/courses/learn-css-grid-with-pinegrow/

I can remember a time when Adobes developer connection site use to produce tutorials on 'new' spec usage. Now no one at Adobe is interested in anything new.

[BenPleysier]

Paula, at the moment I am over the moon, my football team is in the grand final this coming Saturday. I have been barracking for them through thick and thin.

How I would've loved Dreamweaver to come out as a winner. Unfortunately, they are sliding down the ladder with products like Pinegrow and Wappler fighting for 1st position. Both products are young and, like their Teams, lean and modern. In both cases, their CEO's are directly approachable while competent engineers promise and deliver fixes in the next release.

Love it or loathe it, Grid and Flexbox are here to stay and, in that regard, Pinegrow is at the top of the ladder (for the moment).

Having said that, Dreamweaver has the advantage of being extendable and PVII have done a good job with their Flexbox based Harmony page layout builder​.

[W_J_T]

pziecina  wrote

'new' spec usage. Now no one at Adobe is interested in anything new.

What do you think ultimately comes of it from Adobe with Dreamweaver ?

1. Continue in limbo not really sufficing the needs of designers or developers
2. EOL ( another Macromedia thorn removed from its side )
3. Acquisition of another App
4. Rabbit out of the hat by DW developers that finally catches Dreamweaver up
5. Other
6. None of the above

[pziecina]

W_J_T  wrote

What do you think ultimately comes of it from Adobe with Dreamweaver ?

1. Continue in limbo not really sufficing the needs of designers or developers
2. EOL ( another Macromedia thorn removed from its side )
3. Acquisition of another App
4. Rabbit out of the hat by DW developers that finally catches Dreamweaver up
5. Other
6. None of the above

As I have said in the Muse forum, Dw is now for no one, and I was surprised when Adobe EOL'd Muse and not Dw.

Dw is still a program that Adobe does not know what to do with. That is nothing new though, as they are still focusing on Flash developers and DTP users that want to build web sites without codeing knowledge, a situation I do not think is going to change.

If you look at Dw since Adobe acquired it we have -

A decent file and site managment feature, that has remained almost the same since DW MX, (so not really anything to do with Adobe).

We have live view, which is Googles CEF, so also not anything to do with Dw, (open source).

Bootstrap, also open source.

Git, also open source.

Pre/post-processor, open source.

Code editor, guess what, open source.

Css designer, only of use for css 2.1 properties, (and cannot be used with pre/post-processor files).

So what is included in Dw that Adobe can be proud of?

I do realise the Dw team is small, but coders are NOT going to pay for a program that is mainly open-source, (we are use to using a variety of programs for different requirerments). Add to that simple things like server-side and js de-buggers are not included, essential items for browser bassed application development.

None coders, and even those with a little codeing knowledge but want 'visual aids' will not choose Dw. Wappler and Pinegrow have taken that market.

So I come back to my original comment -

Just who is Dw for?

If Adobe and the Dw managment cannot answer that question, except with very vague statements such as, 'designers who are willing to code', then Dw will be a 3rd rate program, (dropped from a 1st rate program). Yes extensions are available, but for new users they can get rapidly expensive, and lots of what they do should be included in Dw anyway, (as standard).

[W_J_T]

Thanks for the thoughtful response pziecina​ . Its a bit of a sad state of affairs concerning Dreamweaver's core app direction and progress.

----

I noticed today Webflow will likewise soon have CSS Grid + visual tools.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jpJE25aq7tA

https://wishlist.webflow.com/ideas/WEBFLOW-I-480

I'm certainly not a fan of closed & hosted software, but I do applaud what they are accomplishing with various things.

[pziecina]

What one must remember when discussing Dw, is that no one who can do anything about it or even comment on it officially will or can do so. It was not always the case though, as Dw PM's use to take part in discussions, (many years ago) but are no longer allowed to do so.

Even joining the pre-release or CAB (CAB members are or use to be the ones who the Dw managment listened to, but flexbox and the requirerments of the modern web changed all that, with most CAB members having no idea about the requirerments, and wanting support for IE6+) is of no use as no one from the Dw team is allowed to join in any discussions in a meaningfull way anymore, (again something that was not always so).

In some ways I can understand why Dw is not making progress in the requirerments of web developers, (or even designers) as when one looks at other web offerings from Adobe, Dw sticks out like a tramp in a fashion parade, (completely out of place).

Untill Adobe, (and/or the Dw team) can or maybe that should be want to, communicate in a meaningfull way with web developers/designers, then its future looks bleak.

[rodenthead]

Yeah, this really scares me and I worry that DW is going to go the way of Flash Professional. I'm Using DW 2020-2021 and I'm still reduced to using 'Float' for outlay and organization. I like DW, especially when I feel 'css code lazy'. I love most of what Adobe develops, but they've gotta do something with the DW team. They're behaving like some Japanese tech company. They know best and the 'common herd' will follow. We know where that got Sharp, Fujitsu and Toshiba. Get it together, and make DW more Flexbox and Grid friendly. I don't hold out much hope for the change.