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layout and ap div in Dreamweaver CC

Community Beginner ,
Jun 26, 2013 Jun 26, 2013

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where is the layout panel and where is the draw ap div button in Dreamweaver cc?

i hope it's hidden but not been taken away


help please

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LEGEND ,
Feb 25, 2014 Feb 25, 2014

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R00sevelt77 wrote:

I strongly urge anyone who reads this forum and sees a member post that AP Divs have no use in modern design to discount anything that individual has to say. It's akin to them saying the spoon is outdated and no longer practical in today's society, and then comical to watch them eat their soup with a fork.

Likewise.... I'd LOVE (and I mean absolutely LOVE) to see someone who boasts about the widespread and popular use of APDivs... to show that use... Otherwise, it's like the guy showing off his "betamax" tape collection with the DVD player.

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Community Beginner ,
Feb 25, 2014 Feb 25, 2014

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A broad-reaching statement that such a tool is outdated and archaic and

should never be used is beyond my comprehension, and barely worth a reply.

As a professional developer I tend to shy away from these forums for just

this reason - please consider carefully the misinformation you post and how

it reflects upon you as an individual.

That I have to provide examples of AP used in CSS is beyond ridiculous, but

as a last ditch effort I took all of 30 seconds to 'dig' out code used by

major websites with enormous amounts of traffic and deep marketing budgets

to pay the very best web designers and developers in the world. Perhaps you

can reach out to them and 'give them a lesson' on the errors in their code.

The examples below both include AP in the CSS - as do most websites we use

today. This is pretty elementary stuff, I urge those of you who haven't yet

comprehended it to spend less time dishing out instruction.

Heineken

http://www.heineken.com/assets/global/styles/hdp-global.css

CNN

http://z.cdn.turner.com/cnn/tmpl_asset/static/www_homepage/2757/css/hplib-min.css

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LEGEND ,
Feb 25, 2014 Feb 25, 2014

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Well, if you go back to the original post, the thread was started by someone asking about building a site with nothing but APDivs.

While some still find a use for them, and I've done so myself on a limited few occasions, building an entire site out of nothing but APDivs and expecting it to work is just plain nonsense.

Both of the examples you cite use Absolute Positioning in a limited capacity, and they DON'T use it for EVERY LAST DIV of the entire site.

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Community Beginner ,
Feb 25, 2014 Feb 25, 2014

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Mike -

You asked, in fact, said that you would 'LOVE' - 'Absolutely LOVE' to see

an example of AP used, did you not?

Was that not clearly shown to you?

It was - and rather quickly and with very, very little effort. That is

because it is a basic concept and it is used WIDELY. Not just occasionally,

but on almost every site on the web. You did not know that, yet you are on

this forum speaking as an authority when you do not understand a very very

very basic concept.

For those who have posted on this thread that there is absolutely no use

for AP attribute (Ben P, Nancy O), that it was outdated and no longer

applicable in modern design - It took me all of 30 seconds to demonstrate

AP used in CSS on the most heavily trafficked sites in the world.

Professional designers across the world thank you for the business they

receive fixing sites that you have mangled as you thrash around Dreamweaver

with your blind ignorance.

For those of you who have come here looking for direction - please remember

that, while a vast amount of information is available online, it is not

filtered, and therefore must be used at your discretion. If you are looking

for reliable information that you can trust, always seek the advice of a

professional - or subject yourself to the erroneous guidance dispensed by

'experts' who are alarmingly eager to declare they have the only keys to

the door.

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Community Expert ,
Feb 25, 2014 Feb 25, 2014

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I don't begrudge anyone for having a different opinion and I wish you well in constructing your websites using AP Div's.

I would like to challenge you to create a simple page similar to the following, but using AP Div's instead. This will be a very useful exercise for those that have been bamboozled into thinking that AP Div's are a thing of the past.

<!doctype html>

<html>

<head>

<meta charset="utf-8">

<title>Untitled Document</title>

<style>

body {

    background: #CCC6C6;

    width: 85%;

    max-width: 1020px;

    margin: auto;

}

header {

    height: 150px;

    background: #06800C;

    padding: 10px;

}

aside {

    width: 25%;

    float: left;

    padding: 10px;

}

article {

    background: #FFFFFF;

    width: 65%;

    float: right;

    padding: 10px;

}

footer {

    clear: both;

    background: #06800C;

    padding: 10px;

}

</style>

</head>

<body>

<header>

  <h1>Header</h1>

</header>

<aside>

  <h3>Consectetur</h3>

  <p>Ullamco laboris nisi ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, cupidatat non proident, duis aute irure dolor. Excepteur sint occaecat sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut enim ad minim veniam. In reprehenderit in voluptate sunt in culpa cupidatat non proident.</p>

  <p>Duis aute irure dolor mollit anim id est laborum. Consectetur adipisicing elit, quis nostrud exercitation in reprehenderit in voluptate. Cupidatat non proident. Eu fugiat nulla pariatur. Sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt excepteur sint occaecat cupidatat non proident.</p>

</aside>

<article>

  <h2>Complex Patterns</h2>

  <p>By moving executive focus from lag financial indicators to more actionable lead indicators, defensive reasoning, the doom loop and doom zoom the vitality of conceptual synergies is of supreme importance. Whenever single-loop learning strategies go wrong, from binary cause and effect to complex patterns, that will indubitably lay the firm foundations for any leading company. In order to build a shared view of what can be improved, through the  adoption of a proactive stance, the astute manager can adopt a position at the vanguard. To focus on improvement, not cost, exploiting the productive lifecycle in a collaborative, forward-thinking venture brought together through the merging of like minds. Taking full cognizance of organizational learning parameters and principles, empowerment of all personnel, not just key operatives, whether the organization's core competences are fully in line, given market realities.</p>

  <p>Organizations capable of double-loop learning, as knowledge is fragmented into specialities an investment program where cash flows exactly match shareholders' preferred time patterns of consumption. By moving executive focus from lag financial indicators to more actionable lead indicators, to experience a profound paradigm shift, that will indubitably lay the firm foundations for any leading company. Empowerment of all personnel, not just key operatives, the strategic vision - if indeed there be one - is required to identify the balanced scorecard, like the executive dashboard, is an essential tool.</p>

  <p>Through the  adoption of a proactive stance, the astute manager can adopt a position at the vanguard. Highly motivated participants contributing to a valued-added outcome. Building flexibility through spreading knowledge and self-organization, presentation of the process flow should culminate in idea generation, the components and priorities for the change program. Motivating participants and capturing their expectations, building a dynamic relationship between the main players.</p>

</article>

<footer>

  <h4>Footer</h4>

</footer>

</body>

</html>

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Community Beginner ,
Mar 01, 2014 Mar 01, 2014

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Well, if even CNN techies use AP divs, I don't feel that much of a shame for myself.

Is there a market $ attached to it? I mean think of all of the army of the script kiddies like myself who figured out working things around with ap divs in DW. 

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Community Expert ,
Mar 01, 2014 Mar 01, 2014

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Well, if even CNN techies use AP divs, I don't feel that much of a shame for myself.

The team of developers who work on major web sites like CNN &  the BBC don't use APDvis for primary layouts.  They use them  only when necessary to achieve a specific effect like Modal windows and disjointed rollovers.  That's what separates amateurs from professionals. 

Nancy O.

Nancy O'Shea— Product User, Community Expert & Moderator
Alt-Web Design & Publishing ~ Web : Print : Graphics : Media

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LEGEND ,
Mar 01, 2014 Mar 01, 2014

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Well, if even CNN techies use AP divs, I don't feel that much of a shame for myself.

In the linked CSS file, which is 11,942 lines long, there are only 119 uses of "position:absolute". Given the complexity of the CNN pages and all the feedback they have going on, I'd say that one could categorically conclude that if they were using AP as anything other than a special purpose tool, they would have far more than 119 uses specified in their CSS file.

None of us have denied that AP uses have some value - what we have said repeatedly is that they are NOT useful as a primary layout tool. That's particularly true when you consider the experience level of the people who come here with problems of content overlap, or moving content, or content that WON'T move when they want it to. In general, they aren't equipped to understand the solution, or to implement the fixes we propose.

Use of AP elements in page layout is just a bad idea for everybody that doesn't have a fair knowledge of HTML and CSS. If you work only in Design view, you probably meet that category.

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LEGEND ,
Mar 01, 2014 Mar 01, 2014

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MurraySummers wrote:

In the linked CSS file, which is 11,942 lines long, there are only 119 uses of "position:absolute". Given the complexity of the CNN pages and all the feedback they have going on, I'd say that one could categorically conclude that if they were using AP as anything other than a special purpose tool, they would have far more than 119 uses specified in their CSS file.

I agree. It's like seeing ONE cracked brick in a twenty story building and saying "This structure is built entirely of cracked bricks. Here is the proof."  It just ain't the case.

If you drop a cherry in a bowl of chili, it doesn't make it pie filling.

APDivs have an extremely limited range of use, and for good reason.

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LEGEND ,
Mar 01, 2014 Mar 01, 2014

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I worried about the pie filling you use!

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LEGEND ,
Mar 01, 2014 Mar 01, 2014

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Well, I DON'T make it with APDivs...

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New Here ,
Jun 01, 2015 Jun 01, 2015

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I have a base structure do use APDIVs and they all follow every monitor size. I have made more than 8 websites with them.

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Community Expert ,
Jun 01, 2015 Jun 01, 2015

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Please supply the URL of one of those 8 websites. I love to learn.

Wappler, the only real Dreamweaver alternative.

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New Here ,
Nov 06, 2015 Nov 06, 2015

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This is annoying. My professor is using CS5 or 6 and I'm using CC. How can I get the same result? I already got " you need to get the version we're using" when I asked for help

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Community Expert ,
Nov 07, 2015 Nov 07, 2015

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  1. Log-in to your Creative Cloud Desktop App.
  2. Click on Apps > ALL APPS.
  3. Scroll down to the bottom and click on PREVIOUS VERSIONS.
  4. You should see CS6 offered in the DW list. 

NOTE: This only works for paying subscribers.  It won't work for 30-Day Trial accounts.

Nancy O.

Nancy O'Shea— Product User, Community Expert & Moderator
Alt-Web Design & Publishing ~ Web : Print : Graphics : Media

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New Here ,
May 21, 2016 May 21, 2016

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I'm studying graphic design, and I have an assignment on Dreamweaver CC, and one part of the assignment that counts largely is being able to do the AP DIVS.... how must I now do the AP divs if it doesn't exist anymore............

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Engaged ,
May 21, 2016 May 21, 2016

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You can still download CS6.

My best,

Justin

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Community Expert ,
May 21, 2016 May 21, 2016

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In CC, do it manually with CSS code.

<style>

/**use this parent wrapper for positioned elements **/

#wrapper {

    position:relative;

}

#divName {

     position: absolute;

/**stacking order on top**/

     z-index: 100;

/**adjust these values as required**/

     width: 400px;

     top: 45px;

     left: 50px;

     height: 100px;

}

</style>

HTML:

<div id="wrapper">

     <div id="divName">

          YOUR ABSOLUTELY POSITIONED CONTENT HERE

     </div>

</div>

APDivs are reserved for very special situations.

If your instructor has you making APDivs for primary layouts, it's time to exit the course and get a refund. 

APDivs are not a reliable way to build modern web pages.

Nancy O.

Nancy O'Shea— Product User, Community Expert & Moderator
Alt-Web Design & Publishing ~ Web : Print : Graphics : Media

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Community Beginner ,
Nov 19, 2017 Nov 19, 2017

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Adobe probably pissed a lot of people by taking it out, including me.
Others could stop pointing it's being wrong. It's still working. Good practice or bad practice, who cares? A example. On Apple devices <embed> doesn't scroll content, while <iframe> scrolls (example - Baltic-stream ). Had to redo the code on a lot of pages just to make it work for Apple devices. Should we now dump the <embed> tag? According to some of the logic laid out here, we should. Apple doesn't allow Flash animations? Should we now dump Animate ? Of course.

Since the "market" exists and it works, you could have left it, Adobe.

There are workarounds on playing with the code in DW CC by adding an element manually
position: absolute;

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Community Expert ,
Nov 19, 2017 Nov 19, 2017

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People in the know are more than pleased that AP-divs have been removed form DW. They were a source of many layout problems.

Taking your page as an example, the following

1. when I make the viewport narrower, the content does not respond, leaving scrollbars to view the content

2. talking scrollbars, have a look at

3. According to rational logic, documents should be correctly coded, not like [Invalid] Markup Validation of http://baltikstream.com/catalogue_engine_NVD_48_A2U.php - W3C Markup ....

4. We should not dump Animate, just the flash files that it produces.

There is much more to be said, but I am afraid it is falling on deaf ears.

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LEGEND ,
Nov 19, 2017 Nov 19, 2017

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Zoom the page, it gets progressively worse.

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Community Beginner ,
Nov 19, 2017 Nov 19, 2017

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I'm well aware of the issues of zooming in, viewport and so on with AP divs.

1 and 2. I don't know which browser you are using, mine shows fine. The scrollbars appear fine.
Tested in Chrome, Firefox, Edge, IE 11, Puffin on PC, tablet and smartphone. Had to use style="overflow:scroll" to make sure Apple devices show an extra scrollbar. Otherwise, I remember it didn’t work on Apple devices. It simply didn’t create a scroll. So, I took the lesser of the two evils. Having a double scroll is better than having content cut in the middle.

3.This “rational logic” rarely finds a perfect site. I am not even going there for I know what it will pull out.

There is much more to be said from my side as well. Wordpress, Wix and squarespace are coming. Some of Adobe stuff is not intuitive.

People will eventually gravitate to things that are easier and have lower learning curve, which is wordpress.

p.s. every time I paste code from somewhere on DW forum, my page scrolls up 😃

Payback? Or can’t Adobe fix it’s own site?

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Community Expert ,
Nov 19, 2017 Nov 19, 2017

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infatum9  wrote

p.s. every time I paste code from somewhere on DW forum, my page scrolls up 😃

Payback? Or can’t Adobe fix it’s own site?

Adobe does not make the software that runs this user forum.  It comes from a 3rd party company called JIVE.   As for the erratic copy & paste behavior with Firefox, I have reported the problem.  It's annoying to be sure but it's not a major usability problem.

Your site, however,  has multiple usability issues.

If you don't believe us, check your site below and read the reports.

Mobile-Friendly Test - Google Search Console

Nancy

Nancy O'Shea— Product User, Community Expert & Moderator
Alt-Web Design & Publishing ~ Web : Print : Graphics : Media

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New Here ,
Jan 25, 2018 Jan 25, 2018

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Need to comment to an earlier post you made in this thread, back in 2013. It's now 2017 and I can ASSURE you that there are LARGE numbers of people who ARE in fact still using CS6 simply because they can still use the AP div functions. Not everybody WANTS to design for phone users and not everybody uses a phone to browse the web. Myself, and a LOT of other people won't use a phone for browsing the web because even when those sites work "right" on phones, it's still not pleasant most of the time and the content can never be as visually pleasing as it is on a desktop, laptop or tablet.

For "phone" relevant content and apps, sure, that's great. Stick to that. For everything else, get a computer and put the damn phone back on your hip or in your purse where it belongs. I and many others have multiple websites that use AP divs because there is significant graphics layout issues doing it any other way, and these pages not only still have first page Google, Bing and DuckDuck Go results for their target keywords, with no apparent "penalties" from any of those bots or algorithms due to not being particularly phone friendly, they also look perfectly fine regardless of browser or text settings so long as a funky phone resolution is not being used.

When will companies learn that forcing users away from what drew them to your product in the first place is a bad way to try and keep your client base intact. Sure, all the "professional" designers are ok with it, but most of them don't NEED a GUI based design tool in the first place. The whole point of Dreamweaver from the beginning was to offer a tool with professional "features" that could be used by the everyman, or woman. CC changed that and not for the better. This opinion will not change as I've been monitoring this exact atmosphere and the position of a great many other semi-serious but NOT exactly "professional" users that have now moved on to other design tools from companies who understand this. Best, and "good enough for us" are often not the same thing.

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Community Expert ,
Jan 25, 2018 Jan 25, 2018

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Published Nov 2016

The Guardian’s data indicates that an on an average weekday, just over 40% of visitors to the site are reading on a desktop, while that number drops to just under 30% on a weekend. The rest are using a combination of mobile browsers on a tablet and smartphone, or the Guardian mobile app.

I can assure you that a layout based solely on absolute positioned divisions, will not work in a responsive design.

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