layout and ap div in Dreamweaver CC

[KaNe_Nod]

where is the layout panel and where is the draw ap div button in Dreamweaver cc?

i hope it's hidden but not been taken away

help please

[allpro]

I'm sure it won't. I think all of the professionals and purists miss the point though. Nobody is using Dreamweaver to create websites for CNN, USA Today, Tom's Hardware, Lowe's, the US IRS service or Wired magazine, just as a variety of examples. People are using it to create websites like Big Joe's BBQ shack, Joe Hammer private investigations, Steve's photography and Jim's custom wood pole carving, because those are all graphics dominant type sites, not data driven, not terribly "informational", and THOSE kinds of sites, which are the ones that people, for themselves, or semi-casual professional on a small scale, create for the purpose of translating a specific graphic orientation or feel, are not being specifically targeted by people on phones or other mobile devices.

Those are sites with a specific kind of person looking for a specific kind of information or visual interpretation of WHAT exactly it is you have for sale, whether that be items that can be shown in some fashion, or a service that you can provide in which case examples can be seen. These kinds of visitors are going to be doing that in their spare time, from home mostly, at their leisure, and usually on a laptop or fixed desktop system of which I do understand that there is a whole lot of people out there who don't understand that while there may be a majority using mobile devices to browse there is also an extremely huge number of people that STILL, and in growing numbers, remain steadfastly dedicated to a home based chair, keyboard, mouse and monitor arrangement or a laptop that while also somewhat mobile certainly offers some measure of the same experience offered by a desktop configuration.

Regionally this might also be a highly variable ration of users but I can assure you that the thousands of people our analytics at Tom's Hardware reveals to us shows that over 75% of those visitors are using desktops and laptops. These are gamers, hardware enthusiasts, home internet browsers, tv browsers and even a whole bunch of those same people who do use mobile, when they are mobile, but who defer to the much more pleasing resolutions of a home based display configuration. Certainly for a good many people you need to target the mobile browser but that does not diminish the fact that regardless of whether those numbers are higher than the alternatives, the alternative visitors still number in the MANY tens of thousands if not millions per day.

Not everybody drives a motorcycle, most drive cars, that doesn't mean there is no market for motorcycles. It's a niche industry that is worth billions every year even if those billions are only a fractional part of the overall automobile industry. This is not much different.

[allpro]

And even among those who DO drive cards, there's a great many of them who tend to use their OTHER mode of transportation from time to time.

[BenPleysier]

Adding to osgood_'s reply, you state

Nobody is using Dreamweaver to create websites for CNN, USA Today, Tom's Hardware, Lowe's, the US IRS service or Wired magazine, just as a variety of examples.

Unfortunately (perhaps fortunately) as a retired engineer I am used to backing statements up with facts, resenting emotional statements.. Hence my question to you, where are the facts that back your statement up?.

[B i r n o u]

Well, I think I understand your point of view, but I do not share it ...

please let me break down the analysis and put everything back to flat in a slightly different reading angle

to say that big companies that develop websites do not use DW is not at all the point to be validated ...

the point on which we must think must not focus on the tools themselves, but on the contrary we must question the production that comes out of these tools ...

whether we are confirmed or casual developers ... we produce content for the web, and this content must be able to be distributed regardless of the device.

you tell us that your visitors are predominantly and in high volume desktop users. it is a fact, certainly. but this fact must in no way interfere with a reasoning open to multi-distribution.

what do we mean by desktop computers? is the user necessarily use a browser open in full screen, or reduced the browser window to half the surface to let other apps live together?

is to say that desktop users use standard screens ... hmmm ... 15 inches ... no this is too old .. so would we say 17 "or 19" or perhaps 24 ".. can to be even 30 "???

and then, is it a simple or high-density pixels screen? ... or more... a old cathode ray tubes? ...

and what about if the user prints? ... on paper ... hmmm or PDF ...?

the responsive side is not exclusively for desktop / mobile differentiation ... but on the contrary to a multitude of context of use ... and as a developer we must take this dimension into account - What about responsive web design – Puce et Média

[pziecina]

No offence to anyone, but if someone wishes to use ap divs for layout, let them.

I do not agree with someone using them, but it is not my decision to make. The way I look at it, is that it is no different to what we had durring the transition from using html tables for layout, to using css for layout, or even to the current disagreements between using floats for layout vs that of using flexbox, (or even css grid layouts).

People will only change what method they use for layout when clients start to leave, untill then every reason and example possible will be given not to use a newer method.

As for Dw removing the ap div panel, they have also removed much more important features, and not included essential tools for users to use newer layout methods, (making the use easier for many) in my opinion, but that is the way things are, and I for one cannot see Dw changing anytime soon.

[osgood_]

allpro  wrote

I'm sure it won't. I think all of the professionals and purists miss the point though. Nobody is using Dreamweaver to create websites for CNN, USA Today, Tom's Hardware, Lowe's, the US IRS service or Wired magazine, just as a variety of examples. People are using it to create websites like Big Joe's BBQ shack, Joe Hammer private investigations, Steve's photography and Jim's custom wood pole carving, because those are all graphics dominant type sites, not data driven, not terribly "informational", and THOSE kinds of sites, which are the ones that people, for themselves, or semi-casual professional on a small scale, create for the purpose of translating a specific graphic orientation or feel, are not being specifically targeted by people on phones or other mobile devices.

Those are sites with a specific kind of person looking for a specific kind of information or visual interpretation of WHAT exactly it is you have for sale, whether that be items that can be shown in some fashion, or a service that you can provide in which case examples can be seen. These kinds of visitors are going to be doing that in their spare time, from home mostly, at their leisure, and usually on a laptop or fixed desktop system of which I do understand that there is a whole lot of people out there who don't understand that while there may be a majority using mobile devices to browse there is also an extremely huge number of people that STILL, and in growing numbers, remain steadfastly dedicated to a home based chair, keyboard, mouse and monitor arrangement or a laptop that while also somewhat mobile certainly offers some measure of the same experience offered by a desktop configuration.

Unfortunately I think you have got this totally wrong, usually as a result of not wanting to face up to reality because reality brings ever increasing issues and problems, which none of us want to face.

There is an increasing amount of users, be they young or old, who just want to sit comfortable in the evening on a sofa, not on an uncomforatble chair peering at a desktop computer screen, a lot want to web surf whilst watching TV, in between ad breaks, whilst programs are not very interesting, etc. For limited periods of time, without necessrily having to boot up a desktop.

There is no excuse NOT to make a website mobile friendly these days assuming its a new build. The workflow is usually very simple once you can escape the fixation of producing specific width designs.

Having said that all websies are mobile compatible whether they are a fixed width construction or a responsive construction - one that is response will be easier for your audience to browse without having to keep pinching the mobile device screen to zoom in to read the information, scroll left/right, which can become annoying.

It doesnt matter whether a website is a high end client, Sallys cup cakes or Arnolds fish and chips, most are competing with other companies and if the other companies website/s are easier to use on mobile devices (mobile friendly) then potentailly your client, if they are still using a fixed with design, could be losing customers.

[allpro]

Well, you have some valid points, can't argue that, and wasn't actually trying to in the first place, however, I think your "reality" and mine are entirely different.

In my reality, based on the analytics from the #1 computer hardware and tech site in the world, Tom's Hardware, a Purch property, says that we have about 1.2 million unique full time members, and that among THOSE members, approximately 75-80% of them are not on mobile devices at the time they log in.

It also says that we have about 1.5 million unique non-member AND member visitors per month, last time I looked at the numbers or had a conversation about it with any of the admins or devs, and that among THOSE members, about 70% of them are not on mobile devices either. Granted, our mobile version of the site really sucks, bad, but the fact is that a user has to have COME there using a mobile device to know that, and they are not doing that in the same numbers as those who are not on mobile devices. Again, totally different metrics. Just because there are 85% of the 8.5 million people in New York city who do all of their browsing on a mobile device does mean that everbody in every town does or that the 15% (1.3 million) in New York that DON'T are unimportant and unmarketable.

Like I said, not everybody rides a motorcycle either but that doesn't mean I can't sell bikes and parts to those who do, comparatively speaking.

[Jon Fritz]

allpro  wrote

...we have about 1.2 million unique full time members, and that among THOSE members, approximately 75-80% of them are not on mobile devices at the time they log in. (20-25% ARE on mobile)

...have about 1.5 million unique non-member AND member visitors per month, last time I looked at the numbers or had a conversation about it with any of the admins or devs, and that among THOSE members, about 70% of them are not on mobile devices either.  (30% ARE on mobile)

By your own numbers, you can expect roughly 750,000 people to have a hard time with your site out of 2.7 million.

That's a huge problem.

Imagine if you will, 25-30 out of every 100 people who walked into a brick and mortar shop not being able figure out how to find the products they wanted, or the check out counter, or the restroom, or knew that the store next door selling identical items was much easier to do all of the above (online, every single competitor is next door).

That doesn't mean you can't use APDivs though. They still exist in the latest versions of DW, they're just a little harder to add initially without the one click button. Once added, all drag/drop/resize still works exactly like it did in older versions...

1. Add a div
2. Give the div a unique id in the main Properties window
3. In the CSS Designer, under the Layout tab of the Properties sub panel for that id, add position:absolute

From there on out, the resizing handles and ability to drag the div in Design View will be identical to earlier versions, writing the attributes for top, left, bottom, right, height and width into your css.

Contrary to popular advice, absolute positioning can be used in responsive design, if done correctly. If it's not, all of the pitfalls of APDivs will be immediately apparent to 25-30% of your viewers which could easily send them to the competition.

[Nancy OShea]

OMG, why are we even having this discussion in 2018?

Mobile-Friendly Test - Google Search Console

If Google says your site is NOT mobile friendly,  you're being penalized in mobile web searches.  Put simply, your mobile friendly competitors have a distinct edge on you.   That alone is cause for concern, don't you think?

[osgood_]

infatum9  wrote

There is much more to be said from my side as well. Wordpress, Wix and squarespace are coming. Some of Adobe stuff is not intuitive.

People will eventually gravitate to things that are easier and have lower learning curve, which is wordpress.

It is happening already, quite quickly, I agree on that one. Web developing is sort of becoming a low skilled job unless you work for some of the top-end companies which themselves invent complex and usually unecessary workflows in many instances desperately trying to distance themselves from the drag and drop, extension, plugin revolution.