[Locked] Will Dreamweaver ever be able to fully work with a CMS like Wordpress or even Business Catalyst in Live Preview?

[dv8kiwi]

This started happening I believe in CS5 and then stopped. Will Dreamweaver ever again be able to edit and update any sort of live CMS site using it's excellent visual tools and editors together with Live Preview? Even if it means just hooking up with a particular CMS. Ideally a really smooth workflow would be creating static pages in DW which can easily be converted to CMS skins, which could then be easily updated as themes or skins using live preview. Surely this could be integrated somehow into Adobe's own Business Catalyst platform?

[pziecina]

I'm not certain exactly what you are expecting of Dw, as for what you are asking there is no requirement to use Dw. A simple Photoshop to WP theme converter, of which there are many would create WP themes for you.

Dw is i think going down a route that personally i disagree with, but i can see why it is doing so, and the target audience in the Adobe family of products it is trying to aim for.

It is not, and never will be again aimed at more than the very casual server side developer, using mainly snippets of code or 3rd party extensions, it is now user orientated towards the small web site creator, (not developer) creating sites for themselves or as part of a very small team, and it's inclussion of basics such as the simple Brackets code editor, bootstrap, sass and git, whilst not used by everyone, and forcing a single workflow on users, does i think reinforce the impression.

If you wish Dw to include a workflow that you wish, then all i can suggest is that you file feature requests, using the item found in the Dw 'Help' menu. Though speaking from personal experiance, don't bother, unless you enjoy wasting your time.

[osgood_]

pziecina  wrote

It is not, and never will be again aimed at more than the very casual server side developer, using mainly snippets of code or 3rd party extensions, it is now user orientated towards the small web site creator, (not developer) creating sites for themselves or as part of a very small team, and it's inclussion of basics such as the simple Brackets code editor, bootstrap, sass and git, whilst not used by everyone, and forcing a single workflow on users, does i think reinforce the impression.

Think of it as the difference between a craftsman building a bespoke bit of furniture and a bit of furniture that has been churned out by a machine which has been assembled from a flat pack. Ikea didnt do so bad but hey if you have any pride in your profession or work you'd want to be that craftsman not that machine but I guess money talks louder than job satisfaction - I cant buy that big 4x4 with satisfaction alone...........sad but inevitable. I concede I'm fighting a loosing battle as more and more 'automation' takes over, luckily for me the door is open and I can see an escape route.

[pziecina]

I'm not complaining Os, there is no point in doing so. All i am doing is pointing out to the OP that Dw is firmly set in following a different direction to theirs, and one in which their request is irrelevant.

Adobe is in the buisness of making money, and lots of users who are not interested in web development, but just wish an easy way to create a site, is a far easier, and larger user base to target and create a program for, than the much smaller number who are developers, and wish to target a completely different and more advanced in requirements client base.

The one thing i do object to, is that stupid statement that, 'the Dw team is listening', as it is a so irrelevant statement that means absolutly nothing unless they are willing to communicate with people, Dw users or not, and the Dw team ignores every not already partly implemented request, if you look at the 'user voice' feature requests.

Everyone in the world 'listens'!!!

[osgood_]

pziecina  wrote

I'm not complaining Os, there is no point in doing so. All i am doing is pointing out to the OP that Dw is firmly set in following a different direction to theirs, and one in which their request is irrelevant.

Adobe is in the buisness of making money, and lots of users who are not interested in web development, but just wish an easy way to create a site, is a far easier, and larger user base to target and create a program for, than the much smaller number who are developers, and wish to target a completely different and more advanced in requirements client base.

The one thing i do object to, is that stupid statement that, 'the Dw team is listening', as it is a so irrelevant statement that means absolutly nothing unless they are willing to communicate with people, Dw users or not, and the Dw team ignores every not already partly implemented request, if you look at the 'user voice' feature requests.

Everyone in the world 'listens'!!!

I know you're not complaining and its evident what kind of users are using DW. If you were a 'serious' web developer this forum wouldn't exist, I doubt DW would either without a serious re-work to say alive. I guess I'm calling the kettle black because I'm fuelling the requirement for such a product by answering what are in most cases super simple questions. Now tell me where your  heart is because I'm the heart surgeon and need to operate on you...........hummm.

[BenPleysier]

pziecina  wrote

The one thing i do object to, is that stupid statement that, 'the Dw team is listening', as it is a so irrelevant statement that means absolutly nothing unless they are willing to communicate with people, Dw users or not, and the Dw team ignores every not already partly implemented request, if you look at the 'user voice' feature requests.

Everyone in the world 'listens'!!!

As one of the persons that made that statement, I take great offence at the label.

Just because Adobe have not (as yet) implemented/corrected features that have been requested, does not mean that they are not listening. It only means that they are prioritising their tasks and in my opinion are doing a great job.

[pziecina]

Take all the offence you wish Ben, it was not directed at you, but at the Dw team, and anyone who thinks that statment is true.

If you think otherwise, please say how, 'they are listening'?

Listening implies a two way discussion, asking people to post feature requests then completely ignoring that persons request, is not 'listening'. As i have previously said, even posting a reply that says, no, not going to happen, forget it, or any such phrasing, is better than the completey and utterly irrelevance that feature requests are currently treated with.

I do agree that many of the feature requests that i have seen posted should be removed due to their insulting content, which contains mainly nothing but insults, and serves no constructive use, except maybe to prove that the poster is not a web developer, or even a user, (or a user in the past) of Dw.

[BenPleysier]

Listening implies a two way discussion

That is a novel implication of listening, one I had not heard of before.

Listening to me implies drawing my own conclusions to that which I hear. We asked for the removal of FGL and replace it with Bootstrap. We asked for pre-processing and voila. We asked for a better version control, I am testing it right now. And so the list goes on.

This make me wonder who the best judge is to determine if someone is listening?

[pziecina]

Just because your interpretation of someone saying, "we are listening" and what it implies, is different to mine, or mine different to yours, or even someone else having a different view again to the meaning, does not mean that any one persons meaning is wrong.

To reply to someone posting a feature request is simply the polite thing to do, and to my thinking the correct thing to do.

Did i or anyone outside the 'inner circle' ask for any of those features you mention, are they any good to me or anyone outside that 'inner circle', do i want a mainly code oriented program, are/have any of those features being/been tested by experianced users of them, does anyone really care if Dw consists of only 3rd party solutions that are free, and the Dw team takes no responsibility in the development of them, the list goes on, and on.

As i have previously said though, i could not care less, what Dw does or does not include, and all the above is for others to decide, but as an ex senior manager ignorance by junior managers such as that being shown by PM's, does annoy me.

[BenPleysier]

I am listening and I do hear you. From our history together in this forum, I have agreed with you on certain points. But this is a different Dreamweaver development team and believe me, they are under enough strain, to not only incorporate new features, but to also fix the bugs in current version.

I feel for them because I have been in similar situations where my clients have expressed their frustrations while I am trying to iron out bugs in what I have coded.

[pziecina]

I hear you Ben, (pun intended ).

It is not the Dw team i am complaining about, but their managers. I know from personal experiance, that had problems like that experianced with the 2017 release happened to projects i was responsible for, I would have been expected to make a statement to clients, not ask team members, PM's, public relations dept, or whomever to make a statment or take responsibility, me, i would have had to make the statment, and make the apology, no one else.

Also as i have said, i can understand why Dw is moving in the direction it is, and the buisness decision behind it. That does not mean though, that the person who is the senior manager should not help out fixing what is wrong, and also make a statment to Adobe clients who use Dw about the what and why.

Being managment, is not just about collecting the money, managing responsibilities and expectations of others, and clients are also part of  the job, even if that means getting ones 'hands dirty' and doing the work one would expect of others.

Also none of the above, means i have to agree with the direction Dw is taking.

[osgood_]

BenPleysier  wrote

We asked for the removal of FGL and replace it with Bootstrap. We asked for pre-processing and voila. We asked for a better version control, I am testing it right now.

Wasn't that the way it was meant to go anyway, without asking? After all FGL was an utter disgrace and Adobe had to save face by quickly inroducing an off the peg framework - most editors out there and IDEs had all these included or extensions for all these way in advance of  DW. Not sure why wasting development time on a set of Bootstrap snippets would be something to sing and dance about though, snippets have always been available to create.....hummm.

I havent tried DW in a while but the only advantage I can see is if it IS an all in one editor. What I find off putting about the more professional IDEs is they expect you to jump through hoops by downloading some poxy .js file or messing around with some command line stuff to include GIT or Autoprefixers etc, etc - I'm definately not into all that crap....so maybe DW still has a future for me. I dont know yet. It needs to up its game a bit and start writing more dedicated stuff rather than hacking together 3rd party components, dressing them up as something original and selling them on at a premium price.

[BenPleysier]

What users of Dreamweaver are looking for is an easy way to create a web page. They (Dreamweaver users) are not unique because other web developers will revert to WordPress or Laravel et al.

Back to Dreamweaver, we all know of past disasters with Adobe created frameworks and functions. As such it is better for Adobe to create a development environment that does not include any of their own creations but are maintained by communities or extension providers. True, Bootstrap is freely available, just like Git and pre-processing. But by Adobe incorporating these features within Dreamweaver, we can be assured that they are continually being maintained.

Taking Bootstrap, the fact that with a click of a button, we can create a menu bar, carousel, accordion breadcrumbs etc., it satisfies the thirst of wanting an easy way to create a website. There are also many Bootstrap snippets available to make the task even easier.

Not everyone will want to use Bootstrap, Git or pre-processing. These developers will either ignore those features or may even turn their backs to Dreamweaver and use other tools (yes there are more professional tools available). This is everyone's prerogative. The main thing is that the Dreamweaver team have been set a goal and they are en route to achieve it.

[osgood_]

BenPleysier  wrote

Back to Dreamweaver, we all know of past disasters with Adobe created frameworks and functions. As such it is better for Adobe to create a development environment that does not include any of their own creations but are maintained by communities or extension providers. True, Bootstrap is freely available, just like Git and pre-processing. But by Adobe incorporating these features within Dreamweaver, we can be assured that they are continually being maintained.

Sounds to me it should be more open source then and leave it up to (as you say) those developers much better than the Adobe developers are to drive it forward. It don't do much more that those editors/IDEs that are open source can do.

[EbaySeller]

Forgive the off topic discussion that has nothing to do with your question, dv8kiwi. Apparently the Private Messages are STILL not working. As such, regulars tend to hijack threads and veer off topic from the original discussion.

[pziecina]

EbaySeller  wrote

Forgive the off topic discussion that has nothing to do with your question, dv8kiwi. Apparently the Private Messages are STILL not working. As such, regulars tend to hijack threads and veer off topic from the original discussion.

The question was answered in the first answer, and no one can post in this forum saying what the future plans are for Dw, unless they are Adobe employees with company approval to do so. Feature requests are the only course of action open too the OP, and the discussion that follows that first post, are about the worth of making those feature requests, which may or may not be of interest to the OP.

(I hope the further posts are of use to the OP).

[EbaySeller]

If dv8kiwi's question was about the worth of sending a feature request then I suppose the speculative discussion of how Adobe handles feature requests would be relevant. Unfortunately, they didn't ask that. So I doubt it's of any use to them. Perhaps the off topic discussion regarding the worth of posting a feature request should be discussed in a different discussion topic? (or a Private Message, since it's speculative)

[pziecina]

EbaySeller  wrote

If dv8kiwi's question was about the worth of sending a feature request then I suppose the speculative discussion of how Adobe handles feature requests would be relevant. Unfortunately, they didn't ask that. So I doubt it's of any use to them. Perhaps the off topic discussion regarding the worth of posting a feature request should be discussed in a different discussion topic? (or a Private Message, since it's speculative)

In that case the answer would be, 'no one knows', and anyone who says otherwise and is not an Adobe employee, is breaking the terms of the NDA, they have agreed to, or is posting a personal opinion, with no grounds in facts.

To me saying to the OP that they can file feature requests, is at least giving them an option that they can take to get there request included.

[osgood_]

EbaySeller  wrote

Forgive the off topic discussion that has nothing to do with your question, dv8kiwi. Apparently the Private Messages are STILL not working. As such, regulars tend to hijack threads and veer off topic from the original discussion.

If it wasn't for the regulars this forum would not exist, you hardly contribute that much yourself.

[EbaySeller]

With respect, I disagree. If it weren't for the regulars frequent off topic "contributions" (if that's what you want to call it) then there would be much more engagement from the people that actually want to discuss the topics that they asked about. This is not a Dreamweaver forum. This is a 5 person chatroom where regulars feel free to discuss whatever it is you want, using the blanket of "it's Dreamweaver related", regardless of whether it's something the original poster asked about.

Also, I know you're replying to me, so there's really no need to quote.

[pziecina]

Now who is going off topic, see how easy it is to do so.

[EbaySeller]

Why is Dreamweaver's application icon green? I think it's because all the other colors are used by other Adobe applications. Is that the reason why the original poster can't convert psd files to wordpress themes? Maybe it has something to do with bootstrap? You got me engaged. Let's discuss this more!

[pziecina]

I think you had better read the original question, as it is now obvious you have never done so.

[pziecina]

I have deleted your last two replies, and I am now locking this thread.

Unless you can post sensible comments, please refrain from posting.

[osgood_]

EbaySeller  wrote

With respect, I disagree. If it weren't for the regulars frequent off topic "contributions" (if that's what you want to call it) then there would be much more engagement from the people that actually want to discuss the topics that they asked about. This is not a Dreamweaver forum. This is a 5 person chatroom where regulars feel free to discuss whatever it is you want, using the blanket of "it's Dreamweaver related", regardless of whether it's something the original poster asked about.

Also, I know you're replying to me, so there's really no need to quote.

Anyone who is a frequent vistor to this forum knows it's basically dead, attracting very few posts these days, compared to a few years ago. I agree its become a 5 person chatroom at times because no-one else has an opinion, everyone is welcome to join in.

I suspect visitors DO read the OT posts (given the number of vists those threads get in relation to some others) so its probably the lively banter and our opinions that is responsible for what limited traffic the forum does attract.

If you follow regularly then you will discover that there are a far greater number of posts that get answered correctly or provide useful information which may help and yet the OP never returns to mark those answers as correct or engage (as you put it)  in any follow up conversation.