No more Muse, what about DW?

[wefollow]

I really don't know what do to after using Muse.

I started using the Dreamweaver with StudioMx  but few months ago started using Muse.

Muse......March 26, 2018 we will release the final feature improvement release ...

Adobe doesn't even recommend Dreamweaver.

Should I come back to Dw?

Really need you advice.

thank you for reading,

James

[ALsp]

That's where we differ AL.

I think Dreamweaver should offer the basic tools, and extension developers expand on them. I don't think it should be necessary for anyone to pay out more money if they have already paid for Dreamweaver, just to get basic features that should be included.

As for it not being necessary to code, read many solutions in the forum and tell me how much coding is being demonstrated, it is mainly use this bootstrap layout or its components, click and its done.

We differ in a lot of areas. A lot of people differ, so please do not take this personally, but you come off as being less than a realist and perhaps a bit obsessed with frugality. Never understood the mindset. It's not something new, either. This is where the myth of open source came from. On the wings of idealists, who tend to crash and burn while the makers of free stuff surreptitiously figure out a way to cash in behind the scenes

Essentially, you are expressing an almost evangelical ideal. So there is no possible argument. Blessed are the evangelists for they know... something?

[pziecina]

ALsp  wrote

Essentially, you are expressing an almost evangelical ideal. So there is no possible argument. Blessed are the evangelists for they know... something?

Call it what you like, but expessing the idea that no one knows anything about web development as you often do. Is egotistic.

No offence, just as I see it.

[ALsp]

Call it what you like, but expessing the idea that no one knows anything about web development as you often do. Is egotistic.

No offence, just as I see it.

Why is it so important to attack me personally? Of course your statement is offensive. Chill out. You are not being nice.

[pziecina]

And you think your attitude to others is not offensive !!!

Best you take your own advice -

The bottom line is that I know it is impossible to engage you in an argument. It's like an Atheist debating a believer. There is no debate. There is no winnable argument. And the only logical course of action is to smile and change the subject .

[ALsp]

And you think your attitude to others is not offensive !!!

Three exclamation points? Paula, I thought I did change the subject. See, this is wrong. You have no idea that I'm not angry or mean-spirited today, do you? This medium really sucks sometimes. So here's my smile

[osgood_]

ALsp  wrote

And you think your attitude to others is not offensive !!!

You have no idea that I'm not angry or mean-spirited today, do you?

I do though because lve seen replies of yours in other forums , maybe some time ago, and they werent pretty when someone disagreed with you, so you are definitely not angry or mean spirited today. Gave me a bit of a chuckle though as l thought - lm not surprised. Damn l wished l had bookmarked that exchange.

[ALsp]

I do though because l've seen replies of yours in other forums , maybe some time ago, and they werent pretty when someone disagreed with you,

I haven't posted on any forums aside from my own or this, so it must have been a long time ago, when I was younger and less able to suffer fools - not to imply that I've encountered fools today

There was also an instance several years ago where I banned a user from our forum for using (lots) of obscene language. That user then used my signature to post on very unseemly forums. It took nearly 2 years to track him down and confront him with the threat of prosecution. So, if you go back in time and see posts from me on forums other than this one, chances are they are spoofed.

[osgood_]

ALsp  wrote

I do though because l've seen replies of yours in other forums , maybe some time ago, and they werent pretty when someone disagreed with you,

I haven't posted on any forums aside from my own or this, so it must have been a long time ago, when I was younger and less able to suffer fools - not to imply that I've encountered fools today

There was also an instance several years ago where I banned a user from our forum for using (lots) of obscene language. That user then used my signature to post on very unseemly forums. It took nearly 2 years to track him down and confront him with the threat of prosecution. So, if you go back in time and see posts from me on forums other than this one, chances are they are spoofed.

Could be l guess, l cant prove it was the Al Sparber, it was some time ago but this poster was pretty persistant in terms of dialect with other contributors in a particular thread, which l would not expect if it was a spoofed post. They usually only post once or twice then move on.

[Jon Fritz]

Since you're here, and this conversation needs to go a totally different direction, does ProjectSeven have, or do you plan to make, any kind of <picture> insertion tool?

Adobe doesn't seem interested in adding that kind of functionality to DW, but it's sorely missing. Something that allows you to drop a <picture> into a page and set the media queries, sources, fallback <img> and what-not. Maybe duplicate already set MQs from other <picture> tags on the page/in the site...

That would be a hell of a tool to add to the program that would definitely help converts from Muse, existing "designers who want to work with code" and purist coders (I think that covers about everyone).

[pziecina]

https://forums.adobe.com/people/Jon+Fritz+II  wrote

Adobe doesn't seem interested in adding that kind of functionality to DW, but it's sorely missing. Something that allows you to drop a <picture> into a page and set the media queries, sources, fallback <img> and what-not. Maybe duplicate already set MQs from other <picture> tags on the page/in the site...

The problem with Dw is that it now uses a cut down version of the Brackets code editor, and the html 5 picture and srcset utility are still only available via an extension in Brackets. So until it is updated to include them as part of its core features, it is unlikely to be available in Dw, (if ever).

[osgood_]

Is anyone using srcset or picture. Given that they both have 90 per cent browser support l would have thought they would have been adopted much sooner.

In my latest project lm currently working on l have just started to use srcset for some of the major images. l kind of feel its ready and it feels right one should be trying to serve smaller images to mobile devices. Why is the uptake so slow?

Is it just because to do it properly it means the management of a lot of extra images, given one would want to crop each one accordingly for specific devices and the time and cost would need to be passed on to the client.

And yes of course if the client manages the images through a cms are seriously likely to take the time and trouble to produce 3 different sizes images for each image (width and height), cropped for maximum impact

[ALsp]

We've been playing with it for a while. This was shown to a customer on our forum last month who adapted the code for his solution:

Test Document

But we are going to be developing a Dreamweaver UI to make using srcset as easy as inserting an image. We've already reinvented the hyperlinking functionality with a new release this week. Perhaps doing a few more utility-type extensions which have more to do with adding feature that Dreamweaver should have, rather than the more code-centric ideal of a page builder or image galley.

[pziecina]

osgood_  wrote

Is anyone using srcset or picture. Given that they both have 90 per cent browser support l would have thought they would have been adopted much sooner.

In my latest project lm currently working on l have just started to use srcset for some of the major images. l kind of feel its ready and it feels right one should be trying to serve smaller images to mobile devices. Why is the uptake so slow?

Is it just because to do it properly it means the management of a lot of extra images, given one would want to crop each one accordingly for specific devices and the time and cost would need to be passed on to the client.

And yes of course if the client manages the images through a cms are seriously likely to take the time and trouble to produce 3 different sizes images for each image (width and height), cropped for maximum impact

I've, (well the org I worked for) have been using picture and srcset for the last 2 years on all new documents.

The slowness in uptake is I think one of complexity, not with the basic 1x, 2x, etc structure, but when one starts to use it to deliver specific images cropped from the largest, or completely different images depending on viewport sizes.

I did read somewhere that one of the major cms's now has an extension for adding picture and/or srcset but I cannot remember which one, (probably wp).

[osgood_]

Wrong, the regulars have not killed the forum off they are the only ones prolonging DWs natural death. Muse came out and a lot of DW users migrated to that. Other programs, outside of the Adobe stable, perhaps better programs suitable for non coders have also contributed to DWs demise. There has been an explosion of more and more resources, tutorials etc which users are taking advantage of. Jquery killed the necessity to learn javascript and it became all too easy to write a simple drop menu, a slide show, a modal window, mitigating the need for some users to purchase an extension.

The landscape has changed, its unrecognisable from the time way back when Murray used to be a regular and much respected contributor, by me at least.

[ALsp]

There has been an explosion of more and more resources, tutorials etc which users are taking advantage of. Jquery killed the necessity to learn javascript and it became all too easy to write a simple drop menu, a slide show, a modal window, mitigating the need for some users to purchase an extension.

Explosion is a good term . Learning JavaScript is not easy. A lot of the simple jQuery menus an slide shows are horribly coded. We simply do it better. I'm sure that's a statement that you will find impossible to agree with, so perhaps I can offer an alternative... we offer features that most, if not all jQuery stub-writers can offer. That's at least measurable and anyone who disagrees can simple present evidence.

The bottom line is that I know it is impossible to engage you in an argument. It's like an Atheist debating a believer. There is no debate. There is no winnable argument. And the only logical course of action is to smile and change the subject .

[osgood_]

No one who cant code cares about horrible coding, many use Bootstrap a pretty horrible and bloated solution. What you are essentially doing is trying to sell good coding to a non coder, pretty difficult if they can get a free solution, albeit badly coded, in your view.

I guess it takes one to know one, we go back a long way.

[ALsp]

No one who cant code cares about horrible coding, many use Bootstrap a pretty horrible and bloated solution. What you are essentially doing is trying to sell good coding to a non coder, pretty difficult if they can get a free solution, albeit badly coded, in your view.

I can't disagree with that... and I won't

[W_J_T]

Hi AL,

Do you know if developers (like yourself) of extensions, widgets, etc., get advance notice of changes pending decisions under NDA? I was wondering regarding the various Muse widget makers, if they would have been forewarned months in advance of the coming Muse EOL or been privy to such information before consumers?

Not a Muse user, just curious towards this aspect.

[ALsp]

We used to when Macromedia owned Dreamweaver. Actually, for while afterwards... until Adobe eventually replaced the transitional DW team. I would have to say that the Muse widget developers were likely just as surprised as users. Of course, there are always some developers willing to sell their soul for false friendships that could lead to useful intel

[W_J_T]

ALsp  wrote

We used to when Macromedia owned Dreamweaver. Actually, for while afterwards... until Adobe eventually replaced the transitional DW team. I would have to say that the Muse widget developers were likely just as surprised as users. Of course, there are always some developers willing to sell their soul for false friendships that could lead to useful intel

Ha, ha. Ok thanks for the feedback and insight.

[W_J_T]

That PDF and research reads more like propaganda by Webflow, than an accurate study of what is available and features offered. Their switch decision almost seems predetermined from various inaccurate verbiage and exclusions in that What Next PDF. Which ends up making it not being very impressive or accurate research that they did.
 I wouldn’t be at all surprised if they reached out to Webflow once they knew of the Muse EOL or vice versa, to directly form a new working partnership. I wouldn’t even be surprised if they are financially sponsored by Webflow now in some way. WebFlow may very well be a viable alternative to some, but that is not as accurate of an assessment as they wish for it to appear.

[Nancy OShea]

W_J_T  wrote

That PDF and research reads more like propaganda by Webflow, than an accurate study of what is available and features offered.

I can't comment on particualrs except to say that WebFlow has satisfactroily answered several burning questions posed by Muse users. 

Adobe Muse EOL announcement - Alternatives to Adobe Muse?

For those wanting to stick with open source, a WordPress + Oxygen combo might be another option to consider.

[W_J_T]

Yes, there are also many design oriented Wordpress based builders, or for Joomla, etc.,

[B i r n o u]

are you talking about this oxygen... Répertoire des thèmes — Thèmes WordPress gratuits

I check this case, and it wasn't update since more than a year and half ?

[W_J_T]

https://forums.adobe.com/people/B+i+r+n+o+u  wrote

are you talking about this oxygen... Répertoire des thèmes — Thèmes WordPress gratuits

I check this case, and it wasn't update since more than a year and half ?

I assume this might be the builder spoken of

Oxygen Visual Site Builder — WordPress Plugins