The future for Classic ASP? [ASP was replaced in 2002 by ASP.NET]

[IrishNJ]

Hi.  What is the future for classic ASP?

I have coded all of my websites in classic ASP but, recently, have noticed that software companies are starting to release, mainly, PHP extensions.

Are there vulnerabilities with classic ASP?

Will classic ASP code still work in the future?

I'm concerned that I'm going to be forced to convert all of my sites to a technology I have no experience of which is, if course, going to be an absolutely massive task as I manage over 50 websites.

And what happens, when I devote a year or two learning a new technology and converting all of my websites, when it is no longer supported?

PHP looks completely alien to me, but at the same time I don't want to learn ASP.NET because I've already learnt ASP and rumour is that it will no longer be supported.  Is there any technology / programming language that will be here for the duration?

Regards
Nath.

[David_Powers]

nathonjones wrote:

Hi.  What is the future for classic ASP?

Best case scenario: it will continue to chug along, never evolving. Microsoft abandoned all development 10 years ago. It's unlikely to change its mind in future.

Worst case scenario: it eventually dies.

Will classic ASP code still work in the future?

As long as the server supports it, it should continue to work. However, I needed to do some testing recently on some classic ASP pages, so I installed IIS7 on my Windows 7 machine. Classic ASP was not one of the default options in the Microsoft Web Platform Installer. It was hidden in the configuration setup. That seems to be a strong message from Microsoft that now is perhaps the time to start thinking about moving away from classic ASP.

I'm concerned that I'm going to be forced to convert all of my sites to a technology I have no experience of which is, if course, going to be an absolutely massive task as I manage over 50 websites.

And what happens, when I devote a year or two learning a new technology and converting all of my websites, when itis no longer supported?

You need to devise a migration strategy. Start with a small site. Decide if any sites are likely to need major revision or if they're likely to wither on the vine. Create any new sites in your new technology.

Moving to a different technology is a risk. However, sites like Facebook and Yahoo! run on PHP, so it's not likely to disappear overnight.

PHP looks completely alien to me, but at the same time I don't want to learn ASP.NET because I've already learnt ASP and rumour is that it will no longer be supported.  Is there any technology / programming language that will be here for the duration?

I started with ASP, but was lucky enough to see the writing on the wall when Microsoft started devoting all its energies to ASP.NET. However, .NET wasn't ready at the time I needed it for a big project, so I switched to PHP. I found the switch very easy, but maybe that's because I hated ASP so much. Try it. I think you might be pleasantly surprised.

[IrishNJ]

Thank you for your comprehensive reply David.  Very good advice.

David_Powers wrote:

Worst case scenario: it eventually dies.

Define "dies".  Is the language vulernable, in terms of security for example?

David_Powers wrote:

You need to devise a migration strategy. Start with a small site. Decide if any sites are likely to need major revision or if they're likely to wither on the vine. Create any new sites in your new technology.

Moving to a different technology is a risk. However, sites like Facebook and Yahoo! run on PHP, so it's not likely to disappear overnight.

I heard the very same thing when I started developing in ASP.

David_Powers wrote:

I started with ASP, but was lucky enough to see the writing on the wall when Microsoft started devoting all its energies to ASP.NET. However, .NET wasn't ready at the time I needed it for a big project, so I switched to PHP. I found the switch very easy, but maybe that's because I hated ASP so much. Try it. I think you might be pleasantly surprised.

One of my gripes with PHP is that I can't run a test server on my Windows machine without turning off IIS.  This means, when I'm between sites, that I'm constantly having to remember to turn on/off IIS when I want to test a PHP site.

What are your thoughts on ASP.NET?  It appeals to me because I don't need to keep switching on/off IIS and it will run on Windows web servers, which I'm currently using for all of my ASP sites.  I'd appreciate any other thoughts on the ASP.NET vs PHP dilema.

Also, what is C#?

Thanks again.

Regards
Nath.

[bregent]

>Define "dies".  Is the language vulernable

>, in terms of security for example?

I think it will 'die' when IIS no longer runs it, or when web hosts stop enabling support for it. As there are still a ton of sites running it, I think it's still a long way off. I don't know if it's inherently insecure, but it certainly doesn't come with as much built in security features.

>I heard the very same thing when I started developing in ASP.

And ASP certainly has not dissappeared overnight.

>Also, what is C#?

C# is Microsoft's answer to Java that runs on .NET. It's very Java/C++ like, so if you are familiar with those languages you'll pick it up quickly. I've been using it lately to build stand alone and mobile client applications - but have not used it for web development.

[jon8]

One of my gripes with PHP is that I can't run a test server on my Windows machine without turning off IIS.  This means, when I'm between sites, that I'm constantly having to remember to turn on/off IIS when I want to test a PHP site.

What are your thoughts on ASP.NET?  It appeals to me because I don't need to keep switching on/off IIS and it will run on Windows web servers, which I'm currently using for all of my ASP sites.  I'd appreciate any other thoughts on the ASP.NET vs PHP dilema.

Also, what is C#?

ASP has no future.  it's KIA.  It's slow, insecure (or at least implemented as such in most cases), has no support from MS, little support online these days (try to google anything and you'll find asp.net information).  It's suitable for existing projects that are too well entrenched in SEO or have the budgets to redevelop.  MS will eventually drop its support in IIS for good, but it will be a slow death.

PHP runs on windows through IIS.  The beauty of PHP is, it runs on almost anything.  I even run production level dedicated servers with php running on iis.  And microsoft has worked with zend to integrate these services better together, including a cache to accelerate it's use similar to the lamp stack.  I love PHP because of it's flexibility and adaptability... whether on a pc, mac, unix, linux, or windows server, a mysql, oracle, or sql server database, etc., apache or iis,... you're up and running with one of the most powerful web development languages in existence.

asp.net is every computer science / network engineers dream... they just drop the language they learned into something that's web applicable.  the downside is, these people also know absolutely nothing about web design, and most of the sites look scary.  .Net framework is very powerful, but clunky at the same time.  Anyone that's worked with it will understand what that means.  it will be around forever, and pays about as well as almost any other web development path (c#.net anyway).  You can also turn that knowledge into software development.  To develop on it, just must be on a pc, you must install the framework, and you'd be crazy not to install the visual studio software.  I.E. (no pun intended)... MS has you coming and going.  exception to that, yes if you think mono is going anywhere, but trust me that MS has you by the coconuts with that path. 

C# is just a MS tweaked C for web and software.  Just like PHP has C roots.  And similar to Java.  These days, all the major players are C based in some way.

If you're looking for a direction, then I would recommend trying them both out to understand them more and the types of jobs you want... because they are very different paths in most cases.

[David_Powers]

nathonjones wrote:

Define "dies".  Is the language vulernable, in terms of security for example?

At some stage, I imagine that hosting companies will stop supporting ASP. Any major breach in security would hasten that process. On the other hand, it could just keep on running like a lot of old, well-maintained cars. It's impossible to predict.

Moving to a different technology is a risk. However, sites like Facebook and Yahoo! run on PHP, so it's not likely to disappear overnight.

I heard the very same thing when I started developing in ASP.

I suppose one question is: when did you start developing in ASP? I can't find exact dates for classic ASP, but it appears to have been first released around 1998. By 2000, Microsoft had abandonded it, and started devoting all attention to ASP.NET. So, it appears that classic ASP was actively developed for only a few years.

PHP was first released in 1995, and is still being actively developed. PHP 5.3, which was released last year, contains major enhancements to the language; and PHP 6, which is currently in development, will make it completely Unicode-compliant. Of course, that's no guarantee that PHP won't be eclipsed by some other technology. The difference is that PHP is now used by major companies. Classic ASP is used only by independent developers.

One of my gripes with PHP is that I can't run a test server on my Windows machine without turning off IIS.  This means, when I'm between sites, that I'm constantly having to remember to turn on/off IIS when I want to test a PHP site.

Stop griping. Use the Microsoft Web Platform Installer to install PHP in IIS7. Select Configure in the Frameworks and Runtimes section, and select the checkbox for PHP. The WPI downloads all the necessary files, and installs them seamlessly. Just put your PHP sites in C:\inetpub\wwwroot, and run them in exactly the same way as you do with ASP.

What are your thoughts on ASP.NET?  It appeals to me because I don't need to keep switching on/off IIS and it will run on Windows web servers, which I'm currently using for all of my ASP sites.  I'd appreciate any other thoughts on the ASP.NET vs PHP dilema.

I don't really have any thoughts on ASP.NET. I have often thought that it would be useful for me to learn how to use it, but there are many other things I would prefer to spend my time on, such as improving my Photoshop skills and video editing with Premiere Pro. There aren't enough hours in the day.

My only knowledge of ASP.NET is anecdotal. My nephew has worked as a database designer and back-end developer for at least 15 years. He was an ASP whizz kid, and was an early adopter of ASP.NET. I don't know which books he used, but his comment was that after the first two chapters, everything was as incomprehensible as rocket science. In the end, he gave up and switched to PHP. Maybe there's better training material available now, but my experience on the official IIS website doesn't fill me with much hope.

[bregent]

>I can't find exact dates for classic ASP, but it appears

>to have been first released around 1998. By 2000, Microsoft

>had abandonded it, and started devoting all attention to ASP.NET.

>So, it appears that classic ASP was actively developed for only a few years.

The first release of ASP was Dec 2006. The last major release (ASP 3.0) was Nov 2000. So it was actively developed for only 4 years. ASP.NET was release in Jan 2002.

[poneacre]

I'm with David, go with PHP.  I have used ASP classic for about 6 years and like it.  I would not have gone with PHP except wihen I started web pages it was suggested that ASP was the place to start.  Wrong, PHP is where to go.  I have done some ASP.NET and it is just has a lot more complication that is not necessary for a whole lot of the web work that needs to be done.  It is controlled by a vendor that will change on a dime and make your platform obsolete at their whem (for example ASP classic).  PHP is a living platform that should continue for a very long time adapting to changes and demands of the web.  ASP classic is not being updated to and therefore will not easily be able to adjust to changes in environment.

[IrishNJ]

Thank you, all, for the comprehensive information.

One last question.  I'm only using Classic ASP for very basic stuff like SSI's, basic data retrieval from SQL database, the odd calculation etc.  If Classic ASP "dies" is it likely that this basic functionality will cease to work on a Windows server?

Thanks again.  Looks like PHP is the way to go, although it looks so alien right now.

Regards
Nath.

[poneacre]

If your isp stops providing classic ASP platform, then yes all asp pages will not function.  Your data will still be there in the database (as long as the ISP continues to provide that service) but you will have to connect to it by whichever platforms (php, asp.net, etc) they provide.  While some as php is different the same basic coding structures  are there.  It is not that bad to move over.  I would say move over soon for you know you will have to sooner or later.

[IrishNJ]

Problem is, I am on a tight schedule with projects and don't really have the time to learn a new language.  I'm sure that's a typical issue for freelance web developers.

I can't help but feel pushed into changing language though.  How secure, for example, do simple web pages that don't link to a database or do anything fancy, but are built in classic ASP, need to be?

I know fine well though that, once I've learnt PHP, something else will come along and we'll be told that what we're using, that works just fine, is insecure etc and I'll need to change all my sites again.

It's a part of computing that I find very murky indeed.  Like anti-virus software.

And to think, we're supposed to have landed on the moon!

Regards
Nath.

[poneacre]

I personally feel that asp classic will be around for a good number of years to come solely because it can be offered along with asp.net at no extra cost to the isp and that there are still a lot of people using asp classic.  When DW stops supporting asp classic I would then know the the end is near.  PHP is very popular and controlled by a foundation not a regular corporation and therefore I feel it will be around for decades.  Of course something else could come along but we will not know until that happens or find the existing platforms cannot meet the needs of developers.

[juresti]

Is there a way to use PHP in a large corporation which uses all microsoft servers and databases? Can I use PHP with MS SQL Database? I didn't think I could. But now a poster here says yes otherwise I have to go to ASP.Net. I built a site with classic ASP but would like to eventually upgrade it. I want to to learn PHP but I'm thinking at work I should just use ASP.net since the tools are available. It's just that I hate Microsoft and I'd like to do my own development on my Mac at times at home and PHP would be best. Any help is appreciated.

[David_Powers]

juresti wrote:

Is there a way to use PHP in a large corporation which uses all microsoft servers and databases? Can I use PHP with MS SQL Database?

Yes, of course you can. PHP runs on IIS. In fact, Microsoft now makes it easy to install PHP in IIS, and has been working closely with Zend to improve Microsoft support for PHP. Also, there is no problem using PHP with Microsoft SQL Server.

However, if you want to rely on Dreamweaver server behaviors, you need to use MySQL.

It's not a message that a lot of people like to hear, but relying on Dreamweaver server behaviors is a very shortsighted approach. Learn the technology, and you have much greater control over what you can do. Using a third-party library like the Zend Framework also makes it a lot easier.

[juresti]

That's good news David Thanks!

[M_R_Biesheuvel]

Also, what is C#?

The .Net framework is a component based framework. That means that you can write libraries in different languages but you can share classes among different languages.

C# is something like the best of C++ and Java. C# is completely OOP and it took the nasty things out of C++ like double inheritance of classes and objects and added things like carbage collection which effectively means that you don't have to worry about freeing up memory.

C# is very accesible for a beginner but also a very powerful tool if your skills advance to pro....

For the rest, ASP has no future, your better of with PHP or ASP.NET.

[wwwebconcepts]

Microsoft Server 2016 continues to have support for Classic ASP which can be added using the Roles and Features dialog as before. Further, version 2 of the IIS mod rewrite adds support for rewriting Classic ASP URLs via the web.config file or directly in IIS. I'm using IIS 8.5 Server 2012 R2 and I can tell you the mod rewrite works as well for Classic ASP as it does for php and .net. Adding URL rewrite support for Classic ASP leads me to believe there are no plans to discontinue support. Further, if one uses parameter queries, the risk of SQL injection is mitigated. I've implement parameter queries, ID encryption, and URL rewriting on my Classic ASP sites and they are rock solid. (Example classiccopper.com.)

[Blogsport]

Generally, because we so often say "programming in ASP", many people think that ASP is a programming language. This also happens with .NET, despite all the marketing and community effort to clarify the matter, there are still a lot of people who don't clearly understand the difference between a framework and a programming language. These people are programmers and non-programmers. Of course we accept the fact that non-programmers do not know this difference, but it's unacceptable that programmers can't distinguish one from the other. Microsoft did a good job in advertising .NET so that programmers are sufficiently well informed on the matter (it's quite normal to see people correcting others in forums). However, in the Classic ASP area, it's very common, for example, to find analysis such as "PHP vs. ASP" and no one claiming about it. The height of absurdity is when people compare the syntax of PHP with the syntax of ASP/VBScript and judge PHP as superior to ASP, just because the PHP is a member of the C/C ++ family, which has a broad base of programmers that, supposedly, would learn the language faster, because of the similarity of the syntax. This is due to the fact that the authors are required to choose a language to be able to say something about ASP. I contribute, in some way, to this confusion, since I wrote the specification of the "ASP language" in the GTKSourceView-2.0 using only the information of ASP/ VBScript. That's right, every new geek that opens a program based on GTKSourceView-2.0 in Linux and choose the ASP option, will be using a ASP/VBScript specification. Therefore I accept the convention that, in the context of the language the ASP is implicitly understood as ASP / VBScript.

ASP hasn't stop in time

As you should have noticed, despite the official languages (VBScript e JScript) of ASP do not have a large library, other languages such as Python, Ruby, Perl and PHP bring their entire built-in library ready to be used in ASP, which means that ASP is still evolving and getting better as the other languages grows and get mature. And more, the new ADO, XML and other components created for the .NET, are also available for the Classic ASP, that's why we're able to call the MSXML2.DOMDocument60, for example.

[poneacre]

So you are saying ASP classic is no where close to dying?  What if M$ kicks support out of IIS?  That is what I assume will happen in the not too distant future.

Sp

[Blogsport]

I really don't know of ASP is close to dying. What David earlier mentioned. In the latest releases of IIS ASP is still supported but you have to activated it instead of ready to use.So maybe in the next IIS releases MS is close to stop support ASP on IIS

There are still several tons of website using ASP.So I think ASP support will be needed for the next decades.

I use ASP for 10 years and I am also struggeling with te question do I have to switch to PHP. Maybe there will be a new server script language launched
in the near future and will ASP and PHP dissapear. My opinion is: If you are a starter go for PHP. For now I keep on working with ASP. Why? The near future is still unclear what happens with the internet and ASP works perfect for me.

[carrzkiss]

I hate it when people state that ASP Classic is a dying bread, and this is true for Microsoft
BUT, not for companies that still use it, that have absolutely no plans on removing the technology from their sites. And for the new servers, They will continue to support ASP Classic for what I read, as there is way too many companies out there that still use the aged technology, there for Microsoft will continue to have the support within their platform, if they give up on ASP Classic within their servers for future release, then they will loose a lot of money as there are still 1,000's of sites that still use the Classic ASP Technology.

It is like Windows XP dying out, but people will continue to use it, regardless of Microsoft's plans for not supporting it in the future. Not everyone wants to move to something new that they do not like nor want to touch (Referring to Vista and Windows 7,,, I happen to like Windows 7, but I continue to use XPMCE, as it works for what I need it to, and I have not had the time to learn the new Win7 design yet)

So.
Classic ASP will continue to be supported for the last I heard, for the next 10+ years of Microsoft Development.
If ASP Classic Vunerable to attacks and so forth? yes, if your coding is not professionally done and you do not protect your code. Same thing goes for: ASP.net and PHP, you have to protect yourself, or you will become a victim.

AS for everything going over to php extentions.
How cares, as long as you have the knowledge and development skills to do everything yourself, then you do not need to rely on some company to make stuff for you to use. (Referring to Dreamweaver Extensions, learn how to code yourself and leave all that crap behind you)

ASP Classic, I love it and do not plan on leaving it behing.
All my sites are done in ASP Classic, and I use ASP.NET only when I need to add something in.
As ASP.NET makes it easy to accomplish such things as Upload and Thumbnails.

Good Luck
Carrzkiss