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Hi Nancy,
I'm obviously not going to get through to you, and there's nothing inherently wrong about that. I just want to state for the record, that my allegiance is to Dreamweaver because I believe it offers the best balance for coders and non-coders. I also believe that if I'm volunteering in this forum, I owe Adobe the respect to not drive or steer people away from Dreamweaver.
Oh, I understand how Pinegrow works. I'm a pretty quick study and between the video and their screen captures I think I understand 
.
They want those things simply because they don't know how to code them themselves.
pziecina wrote
They want those things simply because they don't know how to code them themselves.
Well of course and that's why you need to learn to code IF you require such 'advanced
' workflows rather that place all your faith in someone elses skills, just sitting twiddling ones thumbs until they deliver.
pziecina wrote
That's why I say, leave the run of the mill web sites behind, and offer what can only be done by someone who takes web development seriously as a profession, and not just as an add on to other services.
Yes, I agree. You cant really be a pizza-maker or part time office worker AND a web-developer with any real conviction. You might be able to dump something on the world but its rarely thought about to the point it looks even half professional. I guess I can build a brick-wall for myself but I wouldnt think of offering my brick-wall building skills in a serious capacity to others.
let's say that certainly in England young entrepreneurs must be less lively and less inclined to multiple activities and the plural management of tasks... here in France it is not uncommon to see people with a very complete profile... as you can see on this picture
I know this guy well, and we don't see it in the picture but he also releases turtledoves, he throws a fireworks display while rubbing the floor with his feet to minimize the work of the cleaning people...
his career has lasted nearly 30 years and he has played in every corner of France and Navarre....
pziecina wrote
Simple question Birnou.
Would you hire someone doing web development as just one of a multiple part-time jobs, and do so for working on anything more than small, (cheap, one-off) site builds?
I know I would not.
Here in the UK we have a saying - 'Jack of all trades MASTER of none'. In relationship to the one man band image posted that could hardly be nearer the truth. Who, but a bunch of washed up has-beens, would want to sit and listen to that for more than about 5 seconds.
And no I would not, as a client wanting an urgent/important update to my website he would most likely be playing to 10 sleeping pensioners in an old peoples home ringing his bells and clapping his symbols............being deaf could be an advantage
ALsp wrote
We are seriously considering automating Bootstrap... at least in terms of row/column creation and management. We are considering it because it's something that users who have bought into the Bootstrap cult desperately need. We may not have the stomach to actually do it, but we are considering it because Adobe certainly does not appear to have the talent or the will to do it themselves.
Wow, I never thought I would see the day.
If / once you do offer something, what then compels Adobe to take on the task themselves? I know you have voiced that extensions have historically made Dreamweaver what it is over the years. But it would also maybe appear that at times the presence of extensions might have also propelled the out of touch nature of the Dreamweaver team too instead rely on 3rd parties? Sadly maybe holding back the actual apps development in certain cases, maybe? Otherwise what keeps the Adobe's Dreamweaver team from offering so little themselves and remaining behind the offerings of others, or fulfilling modern user requirements themselves?
Similarly DMXzone released Bootstrap 3 extensions years ago. But they finally sort of gave up on Dreamweaver and built their own app around Bootstrap 4 instead. They still however maintain, update and release new extension offerings for Dreamweaver also.
Do you see your potential but reluctant Bootstrap offering as a needed stopgap to prevent more Dreamweaver users from needing to seek out other alternatives elsewhere until Adobe themselves might release something worthwhile concerning features? Which to this point seems unlikely over the course of the next year or further concerning various missing features in the app in accordance to the 2019 roadmap blog post. From that post, it appears to Adobe the modern web is Bootstrap? Do you feel this potential Bootstrap offering will help hold the fort, as Adobe themselves seem to let the app and users continually and potentially slip away?
Wow, I never thought I would see the day.
You still might not
After spending considerable time delving into Bootstrap, it would be better for us to stick with our Harmony approach, which is cleaner in markup and far more efficient in terms of CSS and other necessary asset files. A typical Bootstrap page weighs close to 1MB in CSS and script alone (uncompressed) which can be counted in terms of 10s of thousands of lines, while a similar Harmony page comes in at around 20K (markup, CSS, and script include).
I guess we're old enough, and comfortable enough, to not have to compromise our standards (thank goodness).
The more I look at the Dreamweaver Team, the more I understand how under the gun they must be. Adobe needs to add web coding experts to the mix. It would be so easy to offer what is the equivalent of the old table layout modules to drive modern, CSS layouts based on either the Flexbox spec, the Grid spec, or a combination of both. There is, therefore, no need for Bootstrap. It remains a part of Dreamweaver because the team does not have the resources to do their own page layout modules.
With that said, and given Adobe's history, it would be foolish for us to invest in something that could become outdated or replaced by Adobe.
It was a wild hair thought is all. But it did ferret out the fact that this particular Dreamweaver community seems especially opposed to the concept of extensions. For whatever reason, I'll leave the forum to its Bootstrap champions to throw in the occasional flash of insight from time to time 
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