Skip to main content
T
tonyc27808663
Known Participant
April 25, 2018
Answered

Character format overrides

  • April 25, 2018
  • 4 replies
  • 1656 views

I am a new Framemaker user, using Framemaker 2015.

I wanted to see what Framemaker would do if I did "update all" on a character tag in the character designer while there were character format overrides in the text. But I wasn't able to create an override and I don't understand why....

Here's what I did:

- I have a character style called Emphasis which is AS IS except for the angle which is "italic"

- I applied the style to a sentence using the character catalog

- I highlighted two words in the sentence

- In the character designer for the Emphasis style I noticed that the fields were no longer "AS IS"...they reflected the properties of the highlighted text instead

- I changed the weight to bold and hit "Apply", expecting to create an override. The two words I highlighted changed to bold.

- But when I do a Find/Change looking for "character format overrides" I don't find any overrides.                

I'm wondering why this isn't considered an override....? Any ideas? Is it because the style weight is "AS IS"?

As I said, I'm trying to see what FM does when I do an "update all" on a character tag while there are overrides in the text. I am expecting FM to come up with a dialog asking if I want to retain or remove overrides....but I can't seem to create an override to test this!  I'd appreciate any opinions... thanks.

    This topic has been closed for replies.
    Correct answer Matt-Tech Comm Tools

    Thanks for the screen sharing offer Matt.

    What I'd really like is to find a way I can share my screen with you so that you can watch me execute my scenario.

    I could walk through it and I hope you could explain what FM is doing....

    Is there a way to do that?  Or alternatively can you share your screen with me and I can tell you the steps I took and talk you through it?

    Maybe we can do it through Skype?

    If you can give me your Skype id I can call you and I believe I can share my screen with you....


    Hi Tony, thanks for letting me take a peek at your doc.

    A recap: Because your character tag still had As Is as the value for Weight, there was no override to be found (Find/Change) or removed (Character Designer).

    Interestingly, we did find a subtle bug in Fm 2015 with the Remove Overrides option, but since Fm 2015 is already out of date, I wouldn't expect a fix for that issue anytime soon!

    -Matt

    4 replies

    Barb Binder
    Community Expert
    Barb BinderCommunity Expert
    Community Expert
    April 25, 2018

    Hi Tony:

    No worries. Let's try it one more time:

    1. Assign Emphasis to three or more non-sequential text strings in a paragraph.
    2. Highlight one of the strings.
    3. In Character Designer, press Shift + F8 to set Window to As Is and change the color to Red. Click Apply.
    4. Now, highlight a different occurrence of Emphasis.
    5. In Character Designer, press Shift + F8 to set Window to As Is and change the color to Blue and click Update All.

    FrameMaker will pop up with the question because it will see that one of strings using Emphasis is red. Remove will change all—including the red one—to blue. Retain will change all except the red one to blue.

    This is one of the lessons from my Intro to Fm class—I know from teaching Fm for 26 years that overrides—along with As Is—are baffling to new users. We address both fairly quickly.

    ~Barb

    ~Barb at Rocky Mountain Training
    T
    tonyc27808663Author
    Known Participant
    April 25, 2018

    Hi Barb. I understand your example but am still having trouble understanding mine.

    I am finding some strange behaviour - using FM 2015. Please bear with me as I outline what I am seeing.

    1. Apply the Emphasis style to a sentence. The style is all As Is except for the angle which is italic.

    2. highlight part of the sentence.

    3. (optional - the results below don't seem to vary whether you do this step or not) In the Character Designer, click Shift+F8 to set the window to as is

    4. In the Emphasis style, in the character designer, change the weight to bold, and click Apply. Theoretically this creates an override?

    5. In the Find/Change pod, search for a character format override. None is found.

    6. click outside the text to set the character designer to mostly As Is

    7. Open the Emphasis style in the character designer and change the weight to Regular and click Update All.

    8. Framemaker asks if I want to retain or remove overrides!

    9. I say Retain

    10. The bold text is reverted to regular weight - it is not retained.

    There are several puzzling things here for me.  In step 5 why doesn't it find an override?  And if there is no override, why does FM ask me about overrides in step 8?  and lastly, why isn't the bold text retained in step 10?

    To make things even more puzzling, I repeated the above steps but in step 7 I changed the colour instead of the weight. FM repeated step 8. In step 9 I said remove the override. In step 10 the bold text was not removed - it was retained!?!?

    I am indeed baffled. Either there is an override or there isn't.  Can you make sense of this for me please?

    Tony

    T
    tonyc27808663Author
    Known Participant
    April 26, 2018

    Hi Tony,

    Your inquiry is pretty contextual, and hard to follow in text. As a result, the answer would be hard to write out as well,and likely to be hard to follow as well.

    If you like, I could screenshare and show you what's going on. Message me if you'd like me to take a peek at it. I'll send you a PM to get the thread started.

    -Matt


    Thanks for the screen sharing offer Matt.

    What I'd really like is to find a way I can share my screen with you so that you can watch me execute my scenario.

    I could walk through it and I hope you could explain what FM is doing....

    Is there a way to do that?  Or alternatively can you share your screen with me and I can tell you the steps I took and talk you through it?

    Maybe we can do it through Skype?

    If you can give me your Skype id I can call you and I believe I can share my screen with you....

    Matt-Tech Comm Tools
    Community Expert
    Matt-Tech Comm ToolsCommunity Expert
    Community Expert
    April 25, 2018

    Hi Tony,

    Following on what Barb wrote, you don't find an override because (as you suspected) the character tag still has its weight defined as Bold. If you were to click outside the text frame, then use the Character Designer to redefine the weight of Emphasis to Regular, you'd get the behavior you were expecting.

    I'm wondering why this isn't considered an override....? Any ideas? Is it because the style weight is "AS IS"?

    Since you're new to FrameMaker, you might want to check out my free FrameMaker course, Introduction to FrameMaker. The specific question you asked isn't covered there, but it will get you oriented to some of the best practices I recommend to all my FrameMaker students.

    You can check out the course at Tech Comm Tools Free Introduction to FrameMaker course

    -Matt

    -Matt Sullivan, FrameMaker Course Creator, Author, Trainer, Consultant
    Barb Binder
    Community Expert
    Barb BinderCommunity Expert
    Community Expert
    April 25, 2018

    Hi Tony:

    I wanted to see what Framemaker would do if I did "update all" on a character tag in the character designer while there were character format overrides in the text

    FrameMaker will display a message asking if you want to retain or remove overrides.

    But I wasn't able to create an override and I don't understand why

    In any of the Designers, selecting the object that has been assigned a tag (i.e., like highlighting text that was assigned Emphasis in the Character Designer), making a change (i.e., perhaps you set the color to red), and then clicking Apply (vs Update All) will introduce an override. Now, click in an other instance of Emphasis, make another edit to the format and click Update All. Then the remove or retain overrides message will appear.

    I teach my students to use Apply to preview a change, but to always follow up with Update All (Update Style in Fm 2017) once they are satisfied with the formatting.

    ~Barb

    ~Barb at Rocky Mountain Training
    T
    tonyc27808663Author
    Known Participant
    April 25, 2018

    Hi Barb

    I am not getting the message asking if I want to remove or retain overrides.

    After following the steps I outlined in my original post, I then clicked outside my text (to restore the Character Designer for the Emphasis style to mostly "as is"), and made another change to the Emphasis style (to the colour) and did an "update all".....and I did not get the message about the overrides.


    So I am perplexed.  By everything I have read I should have an override.

    Jeff_Coatsworth
    Community Expert
    Jeff_CoatsworthCommunity Expert
    Community Expert
    April 25, 2018

    I'd highly recommend picking up one of Matt R Sullivan's FM guides - they're like FM bibles & will probably answer all of your questions.

    Terms & ConditionsAccessibility statement
    Using the community Terms of use Privacy Cookie preferences Do not sell or share my personal information ad choicesAdChoices