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Hi,
I've just installed Helvetic Neue to complete some work for a particular customer. Problem is that is seems to use a different character set within FM8. The normal alpha/numeric characters are alright but things like appostrophies, and symbols such as bullets, n/m dashes end of paragraph markers etc are all incorrect.
All characters appear to be correct in Word and other applications.
Other funny thing is that the font doesn't show up in the Windows character map viewing tool either! Any ideas as to what's ging on here?
Mike
That would totally explain it and also is not allowed in with most EULAs. You need to ask them to supply you a legal font.
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Is this a PS Type 1 or OTF version of the font? How did you install it (since the System doesn't show it the charmap utility)?
What is the point version of your FM8? The latest version is 8.0p277 aka FM8.0.4.
It sounds like there's a unicode mapping issue. Where did the source content for the document originate (Word or was it created in FM)?
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Hi Arnis,
The font family was supplied by the customer as *.TTF files and I've tried installing through the Control Panel and also by right-clicking the font and selecting 'install'. The font files copy to the Windows\Font folder OK, and if I try to reinstall before deleting the font it asks me if I want to overwrite the font (so the 'system' obviously see it as being installed). I repeat that when used with standard MS apps the characters appear normal.
FrameMaker version is updated to 8.0p277.
The documents were originated in FrameMaker. My customer just wants the font change applied to satisfy new corporate standards since take-over.
Starting to pull out what few locks I have left
Mike
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Mike,
The Helvetica Neue TTF variety should show as Helvetica LT XX Roman (or Medium, Condensed, etc.) with a number for the XX, like 55, 65, etc. that represents the different weights and angles. You can see the character map for this font at: http://www.fonts.com/FindFonts/detail.htm?pid=421589&productId=113267&productNo=L616320&siteId=TDWV#...
The FM documents being upadted - were they created in an earlier version of FM and were codepage specific fonts (e.g. Arial CE) being used?
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Hi Arnis,
Thanks for the reply. The only Helvetica fonts shown in the Character Map utility are Helvetic (a) and Helvetica Narrow (TT). There is no sign of
Helvetica LT XX.
The documents were produced with FM8 so I don't think the originating version is a factor here. Also, I get the same effect if I open a new document and apply the Helvetica Neue font to a section of text, complete paragraph or style.
I'm coming 'round to thinking there is a problem with the font files I was given, but slightly disuaded by the fact that all appears well in MS apps. This is baffling me!
Thanks again.
Mike
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I recall seeing another report of problems with certain versions of
Helvetica Neue when using Save as PDF (but not print to Adobe PDF) in FM 9.
I believe it was the FrameUsers group where I saw the report. Here is a link
to a PDF showing the user's test results with several fonts:
http://www.meissner-dokuteam.de/Files/Frame/Unicode_Fonts_Test_fm903_091118_cmyk_rgb.pdfSo there may be some problems due to the Helvetica Neue fonts, rather thandue to FrameMaker.
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Thanks for that Mike. From those results it looks like the TTF version was worse than the OTF version, and as it's the TTF version that Ive been given it's not looking too good . But at least this seems to suport the indication that it's a font problem rather than a FM one. I'll contact my customer and 'hopefully' explain.
Mike
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Might be getting somewhere!
It seems that the original font supplied by my customer was a ".dfont" that they converted to TTF. Now, I don't understand a great deal about Mac fonts but I suspect this might account for the different character mapping.
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That would totally explain it and also is not allowed in with most EULAs. You need to ask them to supply you a legal font.
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Yup!
It's cost them several hours of my (expensive) time messing about.
I've told them I'll purchase the font myself and include it on the next invoice.... Who needs customers?
Anyway, many thanks for the assistance, it's good to know that such knowledgeable help is available here on the forum.
mike
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Mike,
If you are going to buy the font, I suggest buying the OTF version, a more modern way to go and easier to install.
Van
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Dear Arnis,
I read this blog with interest as I have a program called FontXChange by Font Gear Inc which converts font file types. I have problems with Adobe CS5 Illustrator 15.0.2, InDesign 7.0.3 both of which are very finicky about fonts. I find when I update CS2 files to CS5 the new CS5 applications sometimes will not read the original fonts and substitution takes place.
I am using Leopard 10.5.8 and I use Font Doctor to fix fonts and I use FontAgent Pro to manage them.
What seems to happen is with each OS version more and more of my old fonts are rejected due to insufficient fork date according to Font Doctor. This is not a problem for smaller apps but Adobe apps are particularly sensitive and are of course, critical applications.
I have a particular problem with Linotype Frutiger PS type1 in which the Bold and Roman test OK in Font Doctor but AI marks them in the Menu as not available. There they are, activated in FAP and tested OK by FAP as well as Font Doctor. Why does AI not accept them? Would converting all postscript to TTF solve the problem or am I simply creating the same problem that devdocs faced? Is new font purchasing the only answer?
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Mike Wickham wrote:
…Here is a linkto a PDF showing the user's test results with several fonts:
http://www.meissner-dokuteam.de/Files/Frame/Unicode_Fonts_Test_fm903_0 91118_cmyk_rgb.pdfSo there may be some problems due to the Helvetica Neue fonts, rather thandue to FrameMaker.
Mike,
this is a total misunderstanding of what my PDF displays. There is no general problem with the Helvetica Neue font, the document above only demonstrates what the crappy FM9 CMYK engine does to quite a number of OpenType fonts. These fonts all work properly with any other application including FM8. With the font in question being a converted Mac font, the problem is solved anyway, but I don't want readers to misunderstand my PDF. It's all about the FM9 CMYK engine, otherwise the Helvetica Neue is a perfectly working font.
Bernd
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