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May 27, 2011
Question

How can a structured frame be used for translating books to foreign languages?

  • May 27, 2011
  • 3 replies
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I keep reading about how a structured approach can improve the translation process (from english to foreign languages), however, i can't seem to find specifics about a particular method or tutorials about how to go about it (specifically). My question is, how (specifically) can structured framemaker be used for translation from english to foreign languages?  Links to tutorials on this issue would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

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3 replies

Stefan_Gentz__tracom_de_
Participating Frequently
June 1, 2011

@jeffc2010:

I keep reading about how a structured approach can improve the translation process (from english to foreign languages), however, i can't seem to find specifics about a particular method or tutorials about how to go about it (specifically). My question is, how (specifically) can structured framemaker be used for translation from english to foreign languages?

First of all: A well designed structured FrameMaker application with a well-designed template that covers all the needs for multilingual production and which is based on native XML files can actually speed up and optimize your translation process *a little bit* and reduce your post translation DTP costs *more or less*.

But the same also applies to unstructured FrameMaker with a well designed template. Actually the "DTP money saver engine" behind structured FrameMaker is only a clever template that perhaps gets or gets not a few smaller extra tweaks from the EDD which are not available in "unstructured" FrameMaker (like "keep last bullet point always together with the second to last bullet point in my list"). The truth is: Unstructured FrameMaker documents that are based on a straight and clean template and have no local formatting overrides will produce (or produce not) the exact same amount of post-translation "DTP" cost as structured documents.

Actually for translation memory based processes it doesn't make that much of a difference at all. That is, in the "classic" scenario you feed MIF files into the translation memory and get translated MIF files back – with all formattings exactly as in your source files. All paragraph, character and tables styles, all master and reference pages, simply everything in your FrameMaker document will be the same as in your source language files. Only the text will be replaced. Even all your ugly local formatting overrides will make it into the translated file. All leading translation tools have highly sophisticated filters to process your MIF files perfectly.

Same with structured FrameMaker. You can save them to MIF as well and they will be processed in exaclty the same way as unstructured FrameMaker and no structure information will be lost.

So, it doesn't really make a difference if you feed structured or unstructured FrameMaker documents into a professional translation process. Both documents will come back with the exact same formatting as your source document. That means also, it doesn't make a difference in terms of post translation editing efforts. The amount of work you have to spend after translation to make your translated documents look great and "customer ready" depends on the underlying framework. That is, the better thought through your underlying formatting template is, the less work you will have with the translated documents. I have already created both templates for unstructured FrameMaker as well as structured applications that reduce the post translation DTP efforts to zero. Not the question structured vs unstrucured makes the difference. I have seen enough badly set up EDDs and structured FrameMaker documents where it did need days to fix the layout of the translated documents, so that I can tell you for sure: Working with structured FrameMaker is no guarantee for cost saving at all. In the contrary. Finally the same applies for both unstructured and structured documents: You need an experienced expert (or a group of experts) to set up the tools and processes in a way, that works. Too many "experts" promise big savings and do not even consider that a document life cycle doesn't end with writing the last page in the source language.

When working with native XML files in FrameMaker (what I prefer), than the process is a little bit different. You will need to customize the translation tool to "understand" your custom XML. That even applies for the "big" frameworks like docbook or dita, when you have customized them for your needs.

Cheers,

Stefan Gentz

May 31, 2011

Thank you all for your replies so far. As a person investigating the merits of moving to a structured approach in my organization, this discussion gives me the impression that "in theory" a structured approach should improve the translation process, however, it's benefits may not be so apparent in actual practice.

I would be interested to have some more persons with practical experience using structured Framemaker for translation work (english to foreign languages) to weigh in about pros and cons.

The other conclusion i have from the responses so far is that the process is to provide XML files to a translation house that specializes in translating structured documents (including those that use specialized translation applications). I need to learn more about the process and would appreciated being directed to any tutorials that discuss the process, methods and tools.

Thanks!

Ian Proudfoot
Legend
May 31, 2011

Jeff,

A well organized XML based project will definitely save translation costs. There are many advantages to the XML approach to translation management including:

  • Almost zero DTP rework costs - make the EDD/Template do all of the work!
  • Translation is application version independent - no need to wait for the Translation Memory/CMS system vendor to support the latest version of FrameMaker.

I have developed several multiple language applications where these principles have worked very well. From the development point-of-view there is more work to do up-front. All prefix and suffix text along with autonumber and cross-reference formats need to be fixed in the primary language, then translated and added to the EDD. Yes thirty languages supported by one structured template, including Asian languages. The only missing feature is support for right-to-left languages.

For the user simply changing a language attribute value on the root element should change all of the formatting of the book or document to give the correct results for that language.

In the translation system the content is translated as you would expect, but any reference to a language code in any XML attribute is changed to the correct xml:lang code for that translation job. When the translated text is opened in FrameMaker everything will be ready to run in the new language. This may even include applying the correct language specific master pages in some cases.

Structured authoring for translation really is the way forward. I asked for comments on this subject from translation agency KJ International Resources. They gave the advantages of XML for translation:

  • "Structuring reduces inconsistencies in the English (primary language)."
  • "Multilingual desktop publishing costs can be reduced as there is less time needed for format validation and this our practice."
  • "XML is CMS/online ready."
  • "The client can more easily input the XML into their Content Management System for a variety of uses and formats."

I hope this is useful...

Ian

Stefan_Gentz__tracom_de_
Participating Frequently
June 1, 2011

@Ian Proudfood

A well organized XML based project will definitely save translation costs. There are many advantages to the XML approach to translation management including:

  • Almost zero DTP rework costs - make the EDD/Template do all of the work!
  • Translation is application version independent - no need to wait for the Translation Memory/CMS system vendor to support the latest version of FrameMaker.

»... a well organized XML based project will definitively save translation costs.« – I have read sentences like this from a lot of consultants. And I have consulted/supported a lot of customers after those consultants left the stage. I always hear more or less the same from all of those clients. No question, I hear a lot of arguments for working with XML in tech doc, most of the arguments you mention included. Most of the tech writers are happy with the new structured FrameMaker and enjoy writing. And, cross your heart: Finally there's no alternative to XML in the long term if you take your tech writer job seriously. No question – working with pure XML in a professional information architecture in a structured, guiding editing environment like FrameMaker is cool, fun, faster and produces more open, more accessible, more reusable, more reliable, more consistent, in a nutshell: more valuable data.

But what I have never ever heard, and I'm talking about several hundred companies, is: We save more money on translation now. You might imagine that this is surprising me since many years. This is why I always ask: Did you save any costs in your translation projects? Surprisingly the answer is always: No. Actually some – no, wait: many – tell me, that their translation agency even charges more now, because they have a lot of new costs:

  • Costs, to customize their translation memory system to the clients custom xml,
  • costs to follow badly or not documented changes in the client's xml structure (DTD/Schema changes) in the TMS,
  • costs because of more engineering work like 
    • valididating xml in advance,
    • fixing invalid xml exports,
    • fixing invalid translations due to – sometimes massively – increased amount of tag errors because of tagging differences of "old" (legacy mif) and "new" (xml) tags,
    • dealing with just too big XML files that need to be carefully split, so that the TMS has a chance to read it, or alternatively:
    • "glue" the ten-thousand xml "snippets" to more handy chunks,
    • project managers and translators that need to do additional checks, validations, verifyings - and often not knowing what to do with those cryptic error messages, meaning additional support costs

Of course, many if no all of these and many other problems I did not mention here can be solved. And many are not exactly system immanent problems but communication problems (like introducing or renaming elements/attributes but not documenting this and not communicating this to the translation service provider) or would apply to any system change (e.g. also when switching from Word to Frame). However, I do not know of any single translation company on this planet (and I know virtually thousands of them from countries all over the world) that reduced the price per word for just a single pence, just because the client switched over from Word/Quark/FrameMaker/InDesign/Whatever to XML.

Just ask your translation service provider: Will you charge me less per word if I send you XML instead of MIF? I would really be surprised to hear a "yes". And frankly, if you have ever compared a professional FrameMaker document with the same document in xml format in a professional system like Trados: There is actually no difference that would justify any price difference. The text is the same, the amount of words identical, the number of tags is identical, it even looks identical in the translation system (I can post screenshots if you like). From the translation perspective there is no single reason why a translator should charge a single pence less.

So, it's a modern myth, that switching to xml reduces translation costs. That might be true, if you come from a really medieval documentation szenario with MS Word or the like, with manual formatting without any styles and so on (I see tech docs every day where even the TOC is typed in manually!!!) and swith from there to a modern structured xml authoring in combination with other supporting tools like authoring memory / authoring assistance, controlled language, translation memory and terminology managent and control, snippet based content management and so on. That will increase the consistency and quality of your data, which will reduce translation costs in the long term. But the truth is: This has nothing to do with XML per se, but with professional writing and professional management.

So, what's left in the money saving story? No more DTP in the target languages? I always hear, that with XML and FrameMaker you do not have to "format" the translated document. The truth is: If you have a professionally formatted (unstructured) document, you don't have to take care of it, too. Modern tools like Trados keep 100% of the formatting 100% correct in the translated document. If the underlying template is intelligent enough to take account of text amount changes due to longer translations, and if you don't have too many local formatting overrides, the DTP is actually zero and can be reduced to a few mintes/hours for "flying" of the document to check out for unexpeted problems wich can occure in both structured and unstructured documents.

Just to give some numbers on this: We are processing every day technical documentations for a quite big company. A typical documentation from them is about 250 pages in unstructured FrameMaker 9 (source language is English). Until now they were resistent to all my XML pushing. The Documentation is based on a straight, simple template (with our help "reduced to the max") and there are no formatting overrides (a script automatically checks this). The post translation Quality Assurance effort is - depending on the target language - usually something between 1 to 4 hours – that's a few seconds per page for the languages where already a lot of past Quality Assurance Steps went back into the Translation Memories and up to a minute per page for more "problematic" languages).

So, again: XML will not save you a single pence on translations. But it might help you to produce more open, more accessible, more reusable, more reliable, more consistent, in a nutshell: more valuable data. But if you already have properly set up (ustructured) FrameMaker Documents and already work with a professional translation memory system, you will be quite disappointed to learn, that the impressive money saving promises you recently saw on that great PowerPoint slides melt down to a few bucks over a couple of years.

Kind regards,

Stefan Gentz

Michael_Müller-Hillebrand
Legend
May 28, 2011

Jeff,

It seems to me you misunderstood some of the (certainly abbreviated) discussion.

I try to summarize very short: »Structured documents« in FrameMaker are based on a DTD or XML Schema which defines the names and order of elements and attributes, which are then used to structure your content. Those definitions are format-free by design. So for usage in FrameMaker you create an EDD (Enhanced Definition Document?) that adds formatting rules to all those elements.

The effort you invest once into the design of those formatting rules is saved later many times, because writers non longer do the formatting. As such they also cannot introduce »private formatting«. After translation of format-based (sometimes called »unstructured«) documents someone usually has to do some DTP work, for every language. If the EDD is well-designed and does all required formatting automatically, those efforts can be saved.

- Michael

Legend
May 31, 2011

Michael,

As you suggest, I had thought that DTP work could be alleviated and therefore costs reduced, using structured documents or even just XML. Recently, though, we had some translations done of structured documents and the original quote included all the DTP charges. I inquired about this, saying that I thought structured Frame effectively formats itself. The vendor replied (paraphrased) "Sometimes structured documents are even more work, as we have to merge the translated content with the original markup, not just do the formatting." So not knowing any better, we just paid it.

Do you think we got snookered? I know that translation vendors make a lot of their money with DTP charges, so I can see an incentive to preserve them. It doesn't seem quite right, though, that well-structured documents would present a situation where more work was required, instead of less. The structure of these files is even valid against the DITA topic DTD, so I would think that there would be some kind of standard framework most vendors would already have in place for migrating content from our files to their system, and back again.

Russ

Van Kurtz
Inspiring
May 31, 2011

Russ,

Although I have been involved in very little translation work, I believe you got snookered.

Several years ago, I attended a small forum on using XML in technical writing. It was about the time that Microsoft Word switched to an XML-based file format. One of the speakers was an owner of a small translations company. He was all gaga about the fact that a Word file could be saved as XML. He stated that his translations house would prefer content in XML, because it removed all the formatting leaving only the content to manage. We have not used him to translate XML documents, so I cannot state if there are any savings from the DTP costs. If one has a well-running XML roundtripping workflow, I would think one could hand off the XML files to the translations house and get translated XML in return...no DTP required; you do the DTP yourself when you bring the XML into FrameMaker.

Two years ago, we asked one of our employees from Columbia to translate a 250 page, structured FrameMaker user manual into Spanish. The employee had never used FrameMaker, structured nor unstructured. I gave her about 10 minutes training. She a very, very good job. I can't remember if I had to fix anything, but if I did, it was very little. Our EDD inserts a few test snippets automatically, such as Warning, Caution, etc, in addition to autonumbering text, such as Figure and Table. She gave me the Spanish for these snippets. I then added formatting rules to the EDD that were triggered by a book attribute for the language. After importing the updated EDD, all these snippets updated correctly.

So, my little experience is that a well-designed EDD should virtually eliminate the DTP that a translations house needs to do; the only thing I can think of is fixing pagination. Moreover, an XML workflow should eliminate the DTP cost entirely.

One could always ask the translations house to do ONLY the translations, and let you do the DTP yourself.

Van