How do I delete blank pages in FrameMaker?

[Susan305351693t3o]

I have combed through these community pages and there does not seem to be an answer to this question.

I have several documents that have blank pages at the end of them. The first thing I tried was Format/Document/Delete Pages. The window pops up with the page numbers I want to delete, and I hit "Ok." Voila! Page gone. But the minute I save it, page comes right back.

Then I thought I'd resolved the problem by using Format/Page Layout/Pagination and the selecting "Delete Blank Pages" from the dropdown menu in the window. This seemed to solve the problem, BUT....When I published the book, guess what? Blank pages return, in all their glory.

I have played around with Book properties and there is absolutely NOTHING that allows me to delete empty pages at the book level.

I have to assume this is a bug, or FrameMaker is just that un-user friendly. Adobe, please fix your bugs. With what you charge for a subscription, these sorts of problems should not be happening. I'm embarrassed to publish these documents!

Does anyone know a fix to this???

[Jeff_Coatsworth · Accepted solution]

Generally it comes down to the template/master pages that were used to create the document. A lot of them come from the book creation paradigm, so you have things like odd & even pages that drive them to auto-add a blank page to even them up and start on the right page again with a new chapter. 
See Barb's site for help - https://www.rockymountaintraining.com/adobe-framemaker-9-deleting-empty-pages/ or https://www.rockymountaintraining.com/adobe-framemaker-master-page-basics/ or https://www.rockymountaintraining.com/adobe-framemaker-start-chapters-on-the-next-available-page/ 

[Bob_Niland]

Jeff: Generally it comes down to…

More broadly, FM is doing what it was instructed to do by the original document architect, some prior author, the present content, or some combination thereof. 

If the forum were to create a prioritized checklist for all the things that can result in blank pages, I'll bet it would run to at least a couple of dozen, including some fairly obscure scenarios.

But on the understandable desire for: just stop it,
FM has no feature for: never have a blank page here.
Conversely (or perversely), it does have a pseudo-feature for Insert»PageBreak…, which doesn't do what many people assume it does (and I»PB would be on the checklist for culprits in unexpected blank pages).

[Susan305351693t3o]

I'm glad you mention Insert/Page Break. I have been trying to insert page breaks using those commands and FrameMaker does...nothing.

[Bob_Niland]

Susan:  Insert/Page Break. I have been trying to insert page breaks using those commands and FrameMaker does...nothing.

It would be necessary to know the precise scenario to figure out why the op was a NOP, but use of that feature is always ill-advised.

Unlike some other WP/DTP apps, FM has no specific data object for page break.

What Insert»PageBreak… does is to apply a {fragile} override to the currently selected paragraph, silently modifying that para's /Pagination\ Start: [**] properties to reflect whatever you elect in the Page Break dialog:
○ Page
○ Left Page
○ Right Page
○ Column

This can result in the insertion of 0, 1 or 2 blank pages, depending on where the affected para is.

And if the para's format is updated, removing overrides, that apparent PB will vanish.

If something other than a para is selected upon PB insert, FM throws a dialog saying:
⚠ No insertion point in a text frame.

[Susan305351693t3o]

What is a "NOP?"

So it sounds like Insert/Page Break shouldn't be used. So...How do I insert a page break? What I have been doing is adding blank paragraphs to get to the next page. But I have heard that is ill-advised as well. 

[Barb Binder]

Hey Susan:

I think we can all agree that we don't want to use a bunch of returns ¶¶¶ to make a new page or even to handle spacing above or below a paragraph. The general rule to follow is to handle all vertical spacing in Paragraph Designer > Basic.

The best option to control page breaks in FrameMaker is to use the controls in Paragraph Designer > Pagination. For example, you can tell a title paragraph that it must always start at the top of the page. If the title would have naturally fallen in the middle of the previous page, this forces it to the top of the next page. There are three additional controls in the Start menu: top of column, top of left page and top of right page.

You can also get creative in your use of Keep With and the Orphan lines. You can tell certain paragraphs that they need to stay with the with next paragraph or the previous paragraph or both. (Of course you can't tell all paragraphs to do that or nothing's going to be allowed to break across pages, ever.) And the orphan controls allow you to tell a paragraph style that it must keep two lines together at all times, or three lines together, four etc.

I try to make use of the commands above to handle all of the breaks. But here's where Bob and I may diverge in our approach—I know that sometimes I need a break someplace I can't handle as a paragraph style without an override. So that's when I use in the manual page breaks. I don't put them in until the file has been fully proofed, so that I don't expect a lot of re-flow. If I add in manual breaks, and then add or remove text in front of it, the text will reflow and the breaks will be in the wrong spot. 

I don't know yet your understanding of how overrides work in FrameMaker. But basically, I try to avoid them. If paragraphs have overrides, they're going to look different than others with the same style name and I can't keep that straight in my head accross a long document. The only time I use overrides is for page breaks. And what this means is if I try to update his style, and FrameMaker says would you like to retain or remove overrides, I know it's referring specifically to the page breaks, and I can make a decision at that point and not worry about anything else being impacted.

~Barb

[Susan305351693t3o]

Hi Barb,

Thank you for this.

I can see I have a lot to learn. I'm working with a document (which has become several documents) that was brought over from a proprietary program, and has a lot of "gunk" in it that FrameMaker has interpretted however it interprets it.  

But this is very helpful information. I think I will start with making certain Header styles automatically "stay" with their body text, so at least I don't have headers on a page with the body text starting on the next page.

I'm not sure what "gunk" is causing FrameMaker to refuse to insert page breaks, but it seems clear I cannot use that command with my documents in their current state. 

I also have a lot to learn about overrides. I don't know where they are in my documents and how many of them are there. 

Thank you so much for your help. I'm also watching your videos on YouTube, and they are excellent.

[Bob_Niland]

Susan: What is a "NOP?"

No-OPeration; classically, it's computer machine instruction, which when executed, does nothing. It has its uses.

re: So...How do I insert a page break?

Lots of choices, some a bit hacky, but more stable than I»PB.

• Pagination properties of things that need to start a page, typically headings.
• Keep With Next/Previous to nudge stuff to next page.
• Empty Anchored Frame below prior text to not leave room.
• Content in own .fm file, which will automatically start on a new page.
• I'm sure Barb can think of more, if she doesn't already have a list.

[Susan305351693t3o]

Thank you, Bob. This nice bulletted list is very helpful and I will be using it to tighten up my documents!

[frameexpert]

Hi Susan, I have a series of videos on FrameMaker pagination:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AiI1DOoA6Ug

If you are in a hurry, send me an email offlist and I will show you how to get your book to cooperate 🙂

rick at frameexpert dot com

[Susan305351693t3o]

Thank you Rick! I will watch your videos. Thank you for making them, and thank you for offering me the opportunity to reach out. I just might do that!

[Bob_Niland]

Top thing to do is turn on text symbols, and make sure the pages are really devoid of Body content, otherwise, FM will auto-create them again, rather than retain actual content not author-visible.

[Susan305351693t3o]

Yes. This was the first thing I checked.

[Barb Binder · Accepted solution]

Hi @Susan305351693t3o 

Happy to answer questions on the links that @Jeff_Coatsworth provided—you can ask at the bottom of any post, or ask here. 

Most printed books start each new chapter (or section) on a right page. If a chapter ends on a right page, Fm will add a left page to allow the the next chapter to start on the right. If this is how the book is set up, even after you delete the trailing left pages manually, they will return after you update the book. 

What is the goal here? Do you want each chapter to begin on the next available page, left or right? If so, select the files in the book window that you want to modify, right click > Pagination:

Pagination to 1st Page Side: Next Available 

Before Saving and Printing: Delete Empty Pages

Then update your book.

Caution: if you do this, keep an eye on your running heads. This doesn't force FrameMaker to update the custom master pages applied to the body pages (unless you have defined a master page mapping table), and you might end up with a right page running head on the left page, or the other way around.

~Barb

[Susan305351693t3o]

Thank you Barb! I actually posted this question again, with more detail, because I'd forgotten I'd already posted it to this forum. Thank you for your help.

[sandeshk10932888]

i have got the same problem as you, i can see the blank pages at the end of the document. have you resolved this issue, if yes , please let me know, how you did this.

[Jeff_Coatsworth]

@sandeshk10932888 - it could have been one of the list of causes provided by Bob & Barb - what have you tried?