Text preceding table "sticks" with the table

[Rina J]

FrameMaker Version 15.0.6.956

Good morning. I'm having some trouble with table anchors and text running to the next page. In case this description is confusing, I've attached a diagram.

I have two pages, and on each page is a table the fills up about 1/2 of the page. Beneath each table are some notes about the table in a Table Notes style that I created. All in all, each table should take up about 2/3 of the page. I've set both tables to start at the top of their respective pages so that both fit nicely on each page.

For the first table, I have the anchor at the end of the paragraph (Body text style) on the page before. The table starts at the top of the page as expected.

For the second table, I have the anchor at the end of the last Table Note (the notes listed below the previous table).

The problem: The last Table Note on the first page (the one that has the table anchor) wants to jump to the next page, and the the table starts on the page after that, so that the Table Note is all alone on its own page.

The only way to get the Table Note to remain on the previous page (with the first table and its brother and sister Table Notes) is to hard-return the second table anchor to the next line. But when I do that, I have blank line above the second table.

I'm not sure why everything works fine for the first table but not for the second.

I'm sure there is a simple answer but I've been unable to find it here. Thank you. 

[shalomb61686619]

Hi,

You wrote,

"For the second table, I have the anchor at the end of the last Table Note (the notes listed below the previous table)."

Try adding a separate paragraph, an empty line, between the tables and put the second anchor there.

Regards,

Shalom 

[Rina J]

Do you mean before or after the Table Notes that follow the first table?

Thanks!

[shalomb61686619]

After.

I always separate my Tables and Figures from each other unless I'm cramped for space.

[Rina J]

I may be understanding you incorrectly, but the problem with putting the table anchor after the Table Note (next line) is that it pushes to the next page, and I end up with a space above the table (the third column of pages in my diagram).

[Matt-Tech Comm Tools · Accepted solution]

When you have the anchor at the end of a paragraph, it is considered "part of" the paragraph, for better or worse.

When the table or anchored frame must break to the next page, it drags the line of text with it, unless you set the anchor to Float.

If you float the anchor, it will allow text after the table or frame (for better or worse) to "backfill" into available space.

If you don't like either of the above situations, you can place your anchor on its own blank paragraph.

There are many who create an Anchor paragraph style at a 2pt font size to minimize the space occupied by the "blank" line.

You can also get really crazy and set Space Above to a negative amount to offset the size of the "blank" line.

For figures, I prefer to place my figure title above the frame, and place the anchor for the figure in the title. This helps with pagination. It also helps with hyperlink functions, as the hyperlink is to the text, and will position the figure out of frame if the title is set below the figure.

[shalomb61686619]

I was also going to suggest the 2pt font size method. (2pt is the smallest font size FM allows.) This works well. The amount of space is then really small.

Never tried the Space Above trick.

You're right about placing the figure title above the figure. Unfortunately, sometimes we are given a style guide that requires the title to be underneath the figure. It is indeed annoying that the hyperlink places the figure out of frame.

[Matt-Tech Comm Tools]

Yep, frustrating when style guide overrides practical usage!

Esp. when you ask for a rationale for the styling... Usually you'll hear, "Because we've always done it like that"!

One other point about the notes following frames/tables in the example given...

It looks like the text at the end may be set to "Keep with Previous," which is dragging the frame down to the following page, and thus dragging the lines from the para containing the anchor with it.

When I run into stuff like this, I try to "push" an earlier paragraph to the next page (usually by shortening a text frame) to avoid the wonky page break.

[Rina J]

Thank you! I'm going to go with the 2pt font style. That seems to be the easiest and most logical fix. Thanks again!

[Matt-Tech Comm Tools]

Excellent, make sure to mark the reply as "Correct" to help others if you have everything you need.

[Lynne A. Price]

Matt's suggestion to set Start in the table designer to Float often works. Be careful though. Suppose you have three tables. Table 1 fits on the first page of the document with room for more content below it. Table 2 is too big to fit on the same page as the first table. Table 3 is sufficiently shorter than Table 2 to fit on the first page. If Table 2 is set to Float and Table 3 to Anywhere, the surprising result is that Table 3 appears at the bottom of the first page but Table 2 floats to the the second. (Table numbering is not affected, so the numbers are out of order.)

If  Table 2 and Table 3 are both set to Float, they both move to the second page.

      --Lynne

[shalomb61686619]

My experience with Float has not been good.

The idea sounds nice, but in practice, the floating element often moves to a strange place.

If you have something that you really don't care exactly where it appears, then it is OK.