P: Build Library Previews in the background regardless of their having been visible

[domenicd14263256]

Hey,

I have really annoying trouble with the speed of loading Lightroom's previews.

My System:
Macbook Pro M1 Max 32GB RAM

My Camera:
Nikon Z7II

I'm a professional photographer who switched from CaptureOne but Lightroom is starting to annoy me really bad here.

I know the filesize of the Nikon's RAWs is hefty but my computer should be capable of dealing with them.

My process for each job: Make a new Catalog. Copy the files (mostly around 600-800 photos) to a folder. Import to Lightroom. Create a basic look, copypaste on all images, start making the selection.

Whenever I'm in library mode, all the photos that are "in frame" get a preview loaded. Whatever is not in frame keeps the embedded preview until I select the photo or scroll to it in library mode. This is really really annoying for culling photos as there's a LOT of stuttering and loading while going through the photos. I even started using photo mechanics for culling photos when I'm in a hurry because Lightroom lets me down on speed.

So I found the option of exchanging the embedded previews with the "real" previews when idle. I checked it and absolutely nothing changes.

Why doesn't Lightroom load the previews when importing or when applying the look to all the photos? I'd much rather have a little loading bar on the top left telling me when my previews are rendered. While that my system would be a little bit slowed down finishing that I'd have a workable environment.

Capture One does that for example and I think it's the only viable option for professionals.

Did I just miss something or is Lightroom simply not able to create previews in the background? Or do I have to manually tell lightroom to reload the previews every time I apply the same look to say 250 photos?

Also: When I paste a look with cmd - shift - v, it sometimes takes 2 or 3 times pressing the buttons until it is understood by lightroom I want to paste the settings. This is also really annoying and I think it has to do with Lightroom not having loaded a "real" preview yet and is still in the process of exchanging the embedded preview.

Any thoughts on how to fix these issues, Lightroom team? Maybe it's my fault but if not I'll probably swith back to Capture because it's not fit for professional use.

Cheers!

[domenicd14263256]

PS: My process now for "speeding things up":

- Go to library view
- Zoom out max
- Let previews load
- Scroll down to new section
- Let previews load ...
- Repeat till end.

There has to be a better way.

[dj_paige]

Use Embedded Previews

https://helpx.adobe.com/lightroom-classic/help/photo-video-import-options.html#embedded-previews

[domenicd14263256]

Did you read what I wrote? The problem is that embedded previews don't get updated for "real previews" in the background and embedded previews that don't show any of the adjustments I made but plain raw data are no use for me.

[GoldingD]

Not an embedded preview user, so my lessons leanrend is zero. But, (and you may have already done this) at Google (using the bloody nee AI) If I search on "Lightroom Classic Embedded Preview Problem" I see this:

____________________________________________________________________________________________

A "Lightroom Classic embedded preview problem" usually refers to a situation where the preview image displayed in Lightroom doesn't accurately reflect the actual image due to the camera's embedded preview being used, which can sometimes be lower quality or not color-managed correctly, leading to discrepancies when applying edits in Lightroom; this can be resolved by forcing Lightroom to generate its own "standard preview" instead of relying on the embedded preview.

Key points about embedded previews in Lightroom:

What they are:

Embedded previews are small, low-resolution images generated by the camera and stored within the RAW file, allowing for faster initial display when importing photos into Lightroom.

Why they might be problematic:

• Color accuracy: Since they aren't color-managed by Lightroom, the embedded preview might not accurately represent the actual colors in the RAW file, especially if camera profiles are applied.
• Quality issues: Depending on the camera, the embedded preview might be too small or have low detail, leading to a poor visual representation in Lightroom.

How to address embedded preview issues in Lightroom:

Import settings:

• Choose "Standard Previews" when importing: Select the option to build standard previews during import instead of relying on embedded previews.
• "Replace Embedded Previews with Standard Previews during Idle Time": In Lightroom preferences, enable this setting to automatically replace embedded previews with standard ones when your computer is idle.

Manually generate standard previews:

• Select the image: Choose the image where you want to see a more accurate preview.
• Go to "Library > Previews > Build Standard-Sized Previews": This will force Lightroom to generate a higher quality preview based on the RAW data.

[domenicd14263256]

Hey hey thanks for your answer.

I now tried a test catalogue with not using embedded previews.

I imported 500 photos, applied a preset and waited for the "Standard previews" to be rendered. When I browsed through the photos it seemed fine, all photos had the preset applied.

Now I tried another look and applied it to all photos. That's where the same old problem comes in:
Lightroom just updates the previews of the photos in frame in Library view. Every other photo gets updated whenever in comes into view, be it in Development, Single View or Library. Lightroom does not update the previews to the new look in background.

Checking "Replace Embedded Previews with Standard Previews during Idle Time" does absolutely nothing and I read online it would only kick in after 5 minutes of processor being 5-20% and not moving the mouse or so lol. So not really useful.

I can absolutely do "Library > Previews > Build Standard-Sized Previews" but I think it's rebuilding all the previews from scratch and it takes 3-4 minutes for 500 photos. Even though it now told me there were some previews already there and it took a little less I don't think this workflow is very convenient. Like every time I apply some settings to multiple photos I have to manually update the previews?? Is there not any way Lightroom updates on its own in the background?

[JohanElzenga]

Lightroom does indeed not update previews that are 'out of sight' in the grid, except on import. That is as designed. After you have applied that preset, with all the photos you applied it to still selected, choose the 'Build Standard-sized Previews' menu. All these photos need their previews updated because you applied a preset, so using this menu will not do anything that Lightroom will not do eventually (but after you scroll) anyway. Checking "Replace Embedded Previews with Standard Previews during Idle Time" is not relevant here. You are not replacing embedded previews, you are updating standard sized previews.

[domenicd14263256]

...but why? This makes absolutely no sense to me that it is that way by design. It's not even only after presets but merely by copying and pasting settings which is basically technically the same I guess.

It's often the case that I have an assignment and there are say four or five different locations and prerequisites. Or I used a flash and then I did not. So I do copy and paste a lot. So you're basically telling me that lightroom is not designed to copy and paste settings and keep itself updated on the newest version of the photo? That's unbelievable and hardly acceptable for a software that calls itself "professional".

Hitting the "create previews" button every time I copy and paste settings will probably "do the job" but it's an absolute workflow killer. Sad because I like the Lightroom outcomes sometimes better than CaptureOne. But if this is how Lightroom works I guess it is not suited for everyday use for me...

[GoldingD]

I think I am missing something in this discussion, at least at this point.

First up, let my state the following (in case I am full of it)

• Lightroom Classic library previews are used in the Library, Book, Print, and Web modules, and these include any Loupe Views, Grid Views, Navigation Panel Views, and the Filmstrip
  
• In the Develop Module, the Navigation Panel, and the Filmstrip, are those very same Library Previews.
• In the Develop Module, in the Loupe View, you see a preview contained in the Camera RAW CACHE.
• Smart Previews can be useful if you like to disconnect from wherever you keep your original photos. (Like external  media, think Ext hard drives). Some find that to a  be speeder as well (Smart Previews being so small, but that is a false hope) . But frankly, it is a pain in the workflow.
• Embedded Previews can speed up Importing. But frankly are a pain after that. I would avoid.
  

(REF) :

https://mastering-lightroom.com/complete-guide-lightroom-previews/

https://digital-photography-school.com/6-types-lightroom-previews/

And as for what occurs during editing:

If you are in the Develop Module, and you are altering one or more photos. Then as you make those Develop edits, the Library previews should be getting updated. Including those you actually see while in the Develop Module (The Navigation Panel, and the Filmstrip). You should not need to first make some Develop Edits, then go and tell LrC to update the Library previews. If you are applying Develop mods in batch, that should not change (although a bit more time may occur). If you accomplish any Develop Module change, and then go into the Library Module and you see no change in that preview, then something is wrong. This goes for the Grid view, the Loupe View, the Filmstrip (in any module, they are library previews by the way)

[JohanElzenga]

@GoldingD You are indeed missing something. What you are missing is this. If you apply a preset to say 500 images, and then look at the previews in the Library grid, then you will notice that the previews that are currently visible will immediately update with the settings of that preset. But if you scroll down after a while, then you will notice that the previews of the images that are now coming in view have not been updated in the background. Even if you leave Lightroom idle for hours, that will not happen. 'Out of sight previews' will only update when they come into view. This is not a bug or a problem on a user's computer, this has always been that way.

[johnrellis]

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"Checking "Replace Embedded Previews with Standard Previews during Idle Time" does absolutely nothing and I read online it would only kick in after 5 minutes of processor being 5-20% and not moving the mouse or so lol."

I was curious about this, so I ran some tests. I observe somewhat different behavior with raws imported with Build Previews: Embedded & Sidecar. In my LR 14.1.1 / Mac, LR starts building standard-sized previews after 500 seconds and builds them at a rate of about 6 - 7 photos/sec, regardless of whether I'm not using the computer at all or I'm using other apps with the mouse.

But LR would replace the embedded previews of only about half of the thumbnails visible on the screen and the previous screen and next screen, which seems like a bug to me.

Details:

I imported 491 raws from various cameras into an empty catalog with empty Previews.lrdata, with Standard Preview Size: 5120px. Using a script, I logged the number of standard-sized previews built every second.   

I ran this twice, first without me touching the keyboard or mouse and second with me doing email and web browsing.  Here are plots of the number of previews built versus the number of elapsed seconds:

In the first test, only 444 of the 491 photos had their standard-sized previews built, while in the second test 466 of the 491 photos had their previews built.

(The initial embedded previews in 50 of the raws were larger than 5120 px, and the script can't observe when they actually get replaced with rendered previews.)

[domenicd14263256]

Wow, thank you for that deep-dive, that's really producing some insights even though I don't really know what to make out of this. Maybe it's a bug, yes? And still why doesn't Lightroom allow to load previews without being idle?

I feel like this feature is more directed towards users with a large library where it would probably heavily impact their performance when Lightroom constantly tried to keep the previews up to date and at the same time edit photos. But still it doesn't make so much sense to me that there is no way to make Lightroom prioritise building the previews so that you have a little initial loading time and then you work with almost no breaks and stops but Lightroom forces you to work with hickups. I feel like this is a serious design flaw. And I feel like high end systems are somewhat capable of building previews in the back and still have some basic photo editing going on.

[roc97007]

Absolutely agree.  I have exactly the same problem.  I shoot maybe 2500 photos a day at multi-day events, all in the same locale, so there's a certain set of changes I usually make to the photos, somewhat varied based on time of day, which varies the lighting.

First I make global changes, in some cases to the entire day's shoot and sometimes in groups of several hundred photos.  I then run thorugh the resulting photos and start tagging the ones I plan to develop and export.  Even on a 16 core (32 thread) machine with "create previews in parallel" clicked, there's a huge lag as I scroll through the photos.  Like OP, I had taken to going to grid view, smallest previews, and scrolling through the day's shoot to update all the previews before beginning work.  For thousands of photos this can take significant time.  And it's all manual.  Scroll, look, wait, scroll, look, wait.  Ridiculous.

For gosh sake, we use computers to automate processes so we don't have to do them manually.  Yes, as someone else said, Lightroom Classic has "always done it that way" but always doing something wrong doesn't make it right.  It makes it insane.

I wasn't aware of the "update previews" button until I read this thread, and I'll be using that.  But as said elsewhere, previews ALWAYS have to be updated when you make global changes.  You'll never NOT want to do that.  So having to tell the software to do it is ridiculous.  And again, that it's "always been this way" is not an excuse.  It just means that this defect has existed for a very long time.

I got a new truck a few years ago.  Unlike any other vehicle I've ever owned, starting it is a different procedure.  I just click the key into the starting position and then release it, and the starter motor engages until the truck starts, then disengages automatically.  Previous vehicles required that I keep the key in the starter position until the engine starts, then quickly release it to avoid damaging the starter.  This is a really cool feature.  What Ford COULD have done is just keep the old way, and depend on humans doing the process manually, because it's "always been that way".  But that would be insanity.

What I want is a checkbox that when I paste settings onto multiple photos, after the settings are applied, ALL previews are regenerated, not just the ones in view.  People who want the older, insane, manual process could leave the box unchecked.

I formerly ask for this enhancement:

A new checkbox, which when checked, will cause Lightroom Classic to regenerate all affected previews, in view or not, whenever any changes are applied to multiple photos.

[JohanElzenga]

Let me make one thing clear. I was the one that said that it wasn't a bug or a problem on somebody's computer, but that Lightroom has always worked this way and that this is as designed. That does not mean that I agree with that design or defend it, however. I don't agree with it al all. 

[roc97007]

Noted, thank you.  That's an important distinction.

[domenicd14263256]

I formerly ask for this enhancement:

A new checkbox, which when checked, will cause Lightroom Classic to regenerate all affected previews, in view or not, whenever any changes are applied to multiple photos.

By @roc97007

100% agree. This and nothing else.