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joedansk
Participant
January 12, 2011
Answered

Illustrator History Panel...

  • January 12, 2011
  • 34 replies
  • 353420 views

I've been reading that there is no History Panel in Illustrator even though it seems to be a commonly requested feature.  So let me get this straight... Adobe doesn't think that a history panel is necessary in Illustrator?  I get that I can ctrl-z to my hearts content... but what if I've done a string of changes that don't actually effect what I'm seeing on screen so I have no visual clue that I'm at the point I want to stop hitting ctrl-z.  Adobe would rather I try to figure out if I need to ctrl-z 6 times, 7 times, or 8 times or 9 times or 10 times?  Don't you think it would be a lot easier to have a history panel that we can look at and say "oh... that is the change I want to go back to"... Click... Done.  They'd rather we ctrl-z, check where we are, ctrl-z, check where we are, ctrl-z, check where we are, ctrl-z, check where we are and on and on and on?

Yeah... Makes sense.

    This topic has been closed for replies.
    Correct answer Srishti Bali

    Hi all,

     

    We have bought this feature in our latest release. Please update Illustrator to the latest version (26.4.1) and share your experience with us.

    For more details, please refer to this help article.

     

    Regards,

    Srishti

    34 replies

    Show previous replies
    JETalmage
    JETalmage
    Inspiring
    January 13, 2011

    A History palette is a raster program's workaround for the kind of practically unlimited Undo which is practical in an object-based drawing or page assembly program, but which is not practical in a raster program.

    I use most all of the mainstream vector programs, started with this stuff in the mid 80s, and have never had a desire for a Photoshop-like History palette.

    Listing in a palette every selection change, transformation, or path change in a vector program is just silly. You can quickly back up to such changes using Undo, because you're not rebuilding a large raster image with every edit. If you think you're going to have to revert to a point farther back than a couple dozen Undos, as when you've reached a major "milestone" in your artwork or design that you intend to follow with a doubtful experiment, just do a Save, Save As... or a Save A Copy.... and then proceed.

    To experience just how silly this would be, all you have to do is use Photoshop for a few minutes like you would use Illustrator. For example: You're working along, making large, sweeping, destructive changes in a Photoshop paiinting. You have an idea that may or may not work out. Having that History palette hanging out there affords you ability to experiment for a few steps and then change your mind. It lets you do a little bit of destructive (which all raster edits are) experimentation for a few steps. But further suppose that the next few steps of your experiment entails drawing a vector path which you'll use as a selection. It is very easy in Photoshop to very quickly "use up" that handful of mini-saves listed in the History palette. If you do, and then decide, "Nah, let's nix that filter I did a few steps back"--it's still long gone and there's no going back unless you had done a Save, Save As... or Save A Copy....or unless you had applied that filter as an Adjustment Layer (i.e.;--are you catching this?--something that can be treated as an object).

    So Photoshop's History palette still doesn't free the user from having to plan ahead and do incremental saves. Anyone who thinks it does is destined for disaster.

    In a program like Illustrator, however, everything is an object. Even raster effects are not destructive. They are like objects. They can be deleted any time you want, without even touching any of the subsequent operations you have performed since applying them. Moreover, in an object-based program, even destructive changes can be "mini-saved" right there inside the document. You can make a duplicate of that Symbol before you rasterize it. You can make a copy of that text object and drag it off the artboard before you convert it to paths.

    Just a little forethought goes a long way. Egads, you should try a little database design. Changes to records in a shared database are "done deals" as soon as they are committed. There is no "going back" except by reverting to a backup copy.

    In other words, organized work methods always employ a practical measure of planning, even in a raster program that has a history palette. This whole argument about the "need" for a history palette in object-based programs is just one manifestation of that fact. The "pitfalls" of not planning (i.e.; not thinking a little ahead) in this regard is parallel to similar user failures: Not using Layers effectively to organize the object stack, failing to define colors as Global (a particularly stupid AI-specific issue), failure to use Graphic Styles, Symbols, Saved Selections, Paragraph and Character Styles, Templates, etc., etc. You don't have to use those features, but failing to do so will cost you eventually. And having a silly history palette won't prevent it.

    You can irreversably "paint yourself into a corner" in any program by not using it right. That's as true in a raster progam that provides the mere convenience of a few steps being listed in a history palette as in any other. Vector drawing programs don't need "history palette's becasue most edits are not destructive, and vector undos take up comparitively very little memory.

    If it's really that much trouble to do incremental, serialized milestone saves, a macro or script could be easily devised to do that. But no, a vector drawing program does not need a silly history palette recording every click or drag of every anchorPoint or handle.

    And something being "long requested" or even "requested by a majority" doesn't make it wise. Some of the most vocal requestors are users with very little experience, and majorities are quite often just wrong.

    JET

    Mylenium
    Mylenium
    Legend
    January 13, 2011

    I wish I could go about such matetrs as cool-headed and eloquent as you! Well said! Still, allow me to make a tiny comment:

    Egads, you should try a little database design. Changes to records in a shared database are "done deals" as soon as they are committed.

    Actually you wouldn't do that... The database is your backup! You would just append records until the database is full and the validity of entries would just be controlled by another column or another table in the database. The whole point of using database systems is to store data non-destructively at the cost of course of a DB growing exponentially if not flushed or optimized from time to time...

    Mylenium

    K
    KC29
    Participating Frequently
    January 12, 2011

    I've been using Illustrator for many years and the lack of History Panel has never bothered me.

    In fact I've never really thought about it or missed it.

    Using cntl + z has been enough for my purposes

    R
    roberta69459952
    Participant
    February 25, 2016

     

     

    [Abuse removed by moderator. Please follow the community guidelines to be kind and respectful.]

     

     

     

    Mylenium
    Mylenium
    Legend
    January 12, 2011

    I agree with Scott. For such a panel to make sense, AI would have to be turned upside down, that is get away from treating everything as paths. It would have to express a lot of stuff truly parametrically for later non-linear adjustments, but even then conventional path operations would be expressed as Scott already typed - endless, meaningless lists of individual operations. And a history doesn't realyl solve all problems - if bad comes to worse, you could just as well have exhausted all steps liek you can exhaust undo steps and then it will leave you just as frustrated...

    Mylenium

    J
    joedanskAuthor
    Participant
    January 12, 2011

    These are smart people at Adobe... I'm guessing... Is blindly clicking ctrl-z really the best they can come up with?  If so, then maybe I'm making the wrong assumption about how smart they are.

    I'm just saying, if a traditional history panel ala Photoshop doesn't work... come up with something... put those brains to work.  Earn your upgrade money.

      W
      Wade_Zimmerman1
      Inspiring
      January 12, 2011

      It is not so much th need for the feture as it for the users to see how it might work and benefit the. for instance SW thinks that click click click is not workable or at least useful.

      Of course for Photoshop no one thinks there is anything wrong with click click click but the history panel records every pen click, PS also has a limit to the number of history states it records.

      Then there is the ability to fill a document or section with an opacity of the history and the ability to fade an action you have just completed. So it is not so much the need for the feature as it is for the users to see the potential and the way it might work. One the feature is defined so that say those posting here can comprehend it better then they have always embraced the feature but the question remains is that it is not defined well and the goal of those who feel they need it require.

      Here is what I have proposed in the past something akin to the Appearance panel  in which you can add strokes, fills and effects and turn them on and off at will. So my proposal is object oriented and each element is treated as an object, it own little mini document and in say the appearance panel you can turn on history of course in order to work the way Illustrator writes this history has to be different from illustrator. I cannot actually write the steps it normally would do it has to work more like LR which unlike Photoshop never actually does anything to the file just to the preview and only when outputted or export it does it actually do anything to the document itself. It is all just mathematics, like O Foto.

      If Illustrator would work that way then memory issues and the like would be less problematic as well and so would file size.

      now saying illustrator doesn't work that way is not a good argument as the way that illustrator does work is a source of frustration for many users they need a more hardware friendly way to work.

      History on an object by object basis and the ability to turn on and off states independent of other objects can be a very useful way.

      The argument about the memory issue for such a feature is mute since this feature has to be implemented as a mathematical aray of information and not executed processes which will eliminate the need for hugh amounts of memory.

      And since you can turn on and off appearances, strokes, fills gradients and the like this should be possible for object oriented history.

      Perhaps it should be an enhancement of the appearance panel.

      BTW if i recall I think some of the user here who do not see the use of this feature may have been against the need to turn on and off appearances.

        _scott__
        _scott__
        Legend
        January 12, 2011

        To date, no one has posted any valid reasons why a history panel is necessary. You can not have non-linear history in Illustrator the way you can in Photoshop. A history panel in Illustrator would be exactly what you've described... steps that undo would back up to.Do you really need a snapshot to tell you to go back one more step?

        In addition, it would be filled with

        Pen Tool click

        Pen Tool click

        Pen Tool click

        Pen Tool click

        Pen Tool click

        Pen Tool click

        Pen Tool click

        Pen Tool drag

        Pen Tool click

        Pen Tool click

        Pen Tool drag

        Pen Tool click

        Pen Tool click

        Pen Tool click

        Pen Tool click

        Pen Tool click

        Pen Tool click

        Pen Tool click

        Pen Tool click

        Pen Tool drag

        Pen Tool click

        Pen Tool click

        Pen Tool drag

        Pen Tool click

        Pen Tool click

        Would that really be a useful place to expend Illustrator resources?

          T
          therabbit86ed
          Participant
          January 13, 2011

          This sounds like the History Panel in Photoshop when I create a clipping path with the pen tool... So really there isn't much difference. I rather Command+Z as many times as I want to than have a history panel

            Disposition_Dev
            Disposition_Dev
            Legend
            August 26, 2022

            i can understand that.. but if thats your perspective, then it wouldn't matter to you if a history panel existed. Seems like a lot of people here are telling OP that a history panel is a bad idea because they don't prefer it... 

             

            to me... what you're saying here is akin to "why would we need a grid tool? you can just create a bunch of rectangles and then align and distribute them. i'd much rather do that than have a grid tool." If that's how you feel, that's perfectly fine.. But i don't think that's a good reason to say that tool shouldn't exist for those who do want to use it.

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