Overprint toggles object stroke/fill from invisible to visible!

[sPretzel]

I noticed that when I select several objects with various stroke and fill attributes, including some objects having stroke and/or fill turned off (not colour "none" but invisible), and I click Overprint Stroke (or Overprint Fill) in Attributes Panel, those objects with an invisible stroke become visible!

Why is that? Is there a way to prevent it? In other words, I would like to set Overprint Stroke/Fill characteristics without affecting anything else, like visibility.

This is for CS4.

[federico platon]

It works right w/o affecting anything, in CC 2020 under Win10.

Cannot check in discontinued CS4, 

BTW, exactly which number has your CS4 version?

In Help>AboutIllustrator or in Illustrator>About (Mac) shows up in the panel displayed.

Any chance is 14.0 ?

[sPretzel]

Thanks Federico for checking with CC 2020. What's wrong with version 14 and in what way does it impact this particular issue?

By the way, if I select the artwork and do Edit Colors>Overprint Black>Add Black etc., it doesn't have the visibility problem I described.

[federico platon]

Still do not know which is your exact Illustrator version number.

[sPretzel]

Hi Federico. Yes, 14. Why does it matter?

[federico platon]

Yes. It does matter if it's 14.0 or an updated 14.0.x or 14.1,....

As it means it may be a bug in its initial release (14.0), corrected later (memory and stored info should move back 11 years). 

[federico platon]

Funny, I have just tried in current release and on a first attemp, it did happen too! Though later I have not been able to replicate it later even after many combinations and alternatives.

Do you have a simple example where it invariable, not randomly, happens?

[sPretzel]

Everything I tried fails this way. I just tried with 1- rectangle with stroke and fill but the fill is made invisible, and 2- a line (stroke visible). Select the two objects, click one both Overprint Fill and Overprint Stroke in Attributes, and the rectangle's fill becomes visible.

[Ton Frederiks]

Yes, when multiple objects are selected and some have their stroke or fill turned off in the Appearance panel, then checking the Overprint attribute changes the visibility of some fills or strokes.

This happens in Illustrator 2020 (24.0). When single objects are selected it works as expected.

You can report it here:

https://illustrator.uservoice.com

[sPretzel]

So that bug has been there for at least 11 years!

I reported the issue here. That's as far as I'll take it.

I should add that although Edit Colors>Overprint Black>Add Black does not create this problem, it does not set overprint to top-level stroke or fill under Type, but only to stroke or fill under Characters. Conversely, selecting that same object and setting Overprint Fill and Overprint Stroke via Attributes will set stroke and fill to overprint under Type, but not one level below at the Characters level!

[Ton Frederiks]

         sPretzel        wrote:

"I reported the issue here. That's as far as I'll take it."

This is a user forum, if you want to report the bug, this is not the right place.

You can report it here:

https://illustrator.uservoice.com

[federico platon]

Well, I have tried, and get no differences (but white disappearing as expected) when I turn on Overprint strokes.

Please see attached file:

[sPretzel]

I create a rectangle with black stroke and cyan fill, place it in the back. I create another rectangle with black stroke and magenta fill, place it on top and hide its stroke. I select both and check Overprint Fill. The cyan rectangle in the back has its stroke disappear (visibility is toggled off by Illustrator)!

[Ton Frederiks]

Try this,

Open the attached pdf in Illustrator 2020.

Select All and turn on Overprint Fill in the Attributes panel.

[federico platon]

Yes, it happens.

What I ask myself is wether I would ever select several objects and apply overprint to all of their strokes or fills at once, and if I would keep hidden fills, all this in a printing enviroment.

Of course, you are right, and this bug should be corrected. 

[Ton Frederiks]

"What I ask myself is wether I would ever select several objects and apply overprint to all of their strokes or fills at once, and if I would keep hidden fills, all this in a printing enviroment."

Yes, I agree. I think the combination of these things is extremely rare. That may be the reason it was not discovered during the years.

[sPretzel]

The stroke or fill can either be made invisible or set to none. Sometimes, it makes sense to me to maintain the colour (or swatch) that can come in handy later or if several objects share this characteristic (same colour), and turn the visibility off, rather than set the colour to none. As to "wether I would ever select several objects and apply overprint to all of their strokes or fills at once", that is not unusual either as evidenced by the presence of the command Edit Colors>Overprint Black. Not to mention that the artwork is fluid and you might find yourself changing your mind as you progress. Likewise, bulk selection enables you to reuse more easily as much of the artwork as possible for print or digital, or for various printing capabilities. To sum it up, I don't think there is anything exceptional about doing that. 

[federico platon]

Yes the options are there, but I would not bulk select to apply overprinting to the fill or stroke of several objects as once, because:

I do not know why (or the aim for) I need to do it,

The colors can change in a near unpredectible way (OP1 rule used by Ai),

Overprint black, I would use it only for blocks of text, in other situations I would replace it with rich black for uniformity.

I would work for a final print ready version of the artwork from a copy of the original, because when you make up your mind and hide (or remove) any of multiple strokes applied to an object, the whole size and relative position of visible strokes change.

IMHO, for printing I would use a copy and reduce variables to nil. I always have the option to Undo or reapply or restart from a fresh copy of that flexible work full of variants.

I repeat again that this bug and other inconsistencies should (have been already) be corrected.

Another example: apply some fills using flat and gradients using blending modes to an object, add also a pattern. Duplicate this item and select both, The Appearance panel shows Mixed objects, with all the fills correctly listed except the pattern that it's omitted.