Any warnings against producing my magazines in Illustrator?

[Chris P. Bacon]

Apart from the lack of the grid system (which I abandoned, I am going to paint my layout in Illustrator) what can InDesign in terms of magazine production, that Illustrator can't?

[Chris P. Bacon]

So far it's within InDesign, the text is not outline, not vector, so what is it then if it's not rasterized either?

What is it within placed .ai file, and what is it within placed .pdf?

Is it in postscript format?

[James Gifford—NitroPress]

It is vector and thus infinitely scalable; look at it at max magnification. It is not rasterized.

It is simply not editable, directly, as ID content.

[Chris P. Bacon]

True, AI files are vectors, but vectors have the option to outline text, it seems that .ai does not.

Because .svg does have that option.

I wonder why .ai doesn't if it's SVG based.

InDesign can extract text from images, so maybe it could extract text from outlines.

But I never managed to get any outlines from AI to InDesign.

[rob day]

It’s a linked file with a preview proxy. Placed Photoshop files work the same way—it’s for performance.

I can place multiple 1GB Photoshop files with any number of layers, and the InDesign doc will only be a few megabytes. A PDF export can contain the full res linked images without weighing down the ID file.

An AI file could have thousands of vector points, so you want the proxy in the page layout otherwise the vectors could make ID unsusable.

[Chris P. Bacon]

I see.

What about outlines?

Would outlines also weigh InDesign down?

[Chris P. Bacon]

InDesign can extract text from images, but i don't want to import my .ai as raster PSD, and after the text is extracted I suppose the rasterized text need to be removed.

But I cannot edit text in PSDs in InDesign, that were exported as PSDs from Illustrator.

[Laubender · Accepted solution]

Hi @Chris P. Bacon ,

note, that the feature to copy/paste formatted text between Illustrator and InDesign is a new feature with InDesign 2023 and Illustrator 2023. You are still on InDesign 2022 and Illustrator 2022.

Regards,
Uwe Laubender
( Adobe Community Expert )

[Chris P. Bacon]

Ah, then it's solved.

Thanks for the heads up.

[Chris P. Bacon]

But it would be even better if placing an Illustrator artboard into a page in InDesign, all text objects could come through as live type, so I wouldn't need to copy paste every text object over from 1 artboard into 1 InDesign page separately.

Are there any possibilites for that with the new updates in both Illustrator and InDesign?

If I do a text on graphics layout where the text is intertwined with the graphics (comics, graphical infographics or scrapboard layout) I must create both text and graphics in the same time, that means I must create both in Illustrator. Then I need to import that artboard into an InDesign page. When I have all pages in InDesign already, I can take advantage of the text and layout fuctions that are only available in InDesign.

[James Gifford—NitroPress]

The Adobe apps integrate so smoothly that there is almost zero need for every tool to duplicate or enable every other tool's functions.

AI and ID handle text in different ways. Changing either to allow cross-editing would add complexity without adding actual usefulness for any but a very, very small portion of the user base. In a managed workflow, AI documents should not use large amounts of composed text that need editing at the layout level. (And ID doesn't support photo manipulation on PSDs, either — just for example.)

For a majority of users, being able to click straight through to the live component document and edit it with the full power of its native tool is enough.

[Chris P. Bacon]

If I come back to Illustrator to extend a graphics because I added more text into that area, I don't see the text. I only see the graphics. How do I know then how much to extend my graphics?

Editing text in InDesign and graphics in Illustrator, separately, does not work, in publications where text and graphics are intertwined, as I mentioned, comics, infographics, scrapboard layouts, etc.

[chrisg11235813]

Look at the measurements in the applications.  Both illustrator and inDesign have rulers, and pallets that can tell you the size details of the new textboxes

[Chris P. Bacon]

If I want to extend these boxes or change their shapes in Illustrator because I added or removed text to them in Indesign, I am unable to see the text in Illustrator, so I am unable to adapt my graphics to my new text. Because it's usually the graphics is what you fit to text, not the other way around.

[Chris P. Bacon]

I already tested the new feature, now I can copy paste text with formatting between the 2 apps, but the size and shape of the text frames is lost. That is why I still have to produce both text and graphics in Illustrator, but I want a final InDesign document with live text.

[chrisg11235813]

did you see my previous response?

Look at the measurements in the applications.  Both illustrator and inDesign have rulers, and pallets that can tell you the size details of the new textboxes

[Chris P. Bacon]

I am constantly making changes to text, that means constantly taking measurements, that's not good. I am not looking for "makeshift" solutions.

[chrisg11235813]

If it is only a minor sizing issue, you can adjust the size/shape of your textbox to match graphics.

I typically fit my text to the graphics, but that's not always the rule, so if you need to adjust the graphics, you should adjust the graphics.

[Chris P. Bacon]

"you can adjust the size/shape of your textbox to match graphics" that simply doesn't work, because that would affect either font size or line spacing, even if it would work, and that's not acceptable.

[Chris P. Bacon]

You are a pathological bully, get out of here! NOW!!!

[Robert at ID-Tasker]

Kind of workaround would be to keep both programs open, work in Illustrator on your graphics part, save, switch to InDesign, refresh link to the background graphics, work on text.

If you really need preview of the text in Illustrator, you could export text layer from InDesign - as PDF - place it in Illustrator and work on graphics part.

On the powerful machine it would be seamless - and particularly scripted. 

[James Gifford—NitroPress]

Even  that's unnecessarily complicated. Click-open the component AI doc, edit, save, return to ID. No need to find and load the AI doc separately (or keep 10-50 of them open), no need to force the refresh on return.

But then, that's a step past the more reasonable approach of not putting layout text in AI in the first place.

[Chris P. Bacon]

"Click-open the component AI doc, edit" I cannot, because I don't see the text in AI. Remember I am fitting graphics to text changes - which happen all the time.

[Chris P. Bacon]

"Kind of workaround would be to keep both programs open, work in Illustrator on your graphics part, save, switch to InDesign, refresh link to the background graphics, work on text."

In this workflow 70% is adapting graphics to text changes, not the other way around.

"If you really need preview of the text in Illustrator, you could export text layer from InDesign - as PDF - place it in Illustrator and work on graphics part."

Same issue - I am mostly adapting graphics to text changes, not the other way around, so this wouldn't work either.

[chrisg11235813]

1) in InDesign, turn off the graphic layer (which is a link from illustrator  - .ai file), export a reference PDF, of just the Text, positioned and sized on the page. 

2) Link that PDF reference into illustrator. It will be the same size as your illustrator page, positioning will fill the artboard. (next time you just have to update the link, no relinking necessary)

3) In illustrator, adjust your graphics to fit the text link. Save the file

4) In inDesign, update the background graphic link. Turn off the illustrator text layer of the link using Object Layer Options (you only have to do this once)

5) When you get new text, add it to the inDesign document.

6) Go back to step 1 and repeat.

[Chris P. Bacon]

Thanks, I will experiment with this, to see if it works for me.