Can you use SVG files in InDesign?

[LauraFig]

Hi,

Recently a client provided me a bunch of SVG files for a new branding system-- logos, icons, etc. I understand they are vector files, but not clear as to why this format was selected as the default. 

My projects include both print and web. I'm guessing the SVG files are okay for web? And it appears that they can be saved as CMYK (unlike PNG files), but are they okay to import into an InDesign file? I'm fine with resaving them as an InDesign compatible file, I just don't want to do so if I don't need to.

I've been a designer for almost 40 years so am hesitant to ask the client (a younger designer) in case the answer is something that "everyone" knows!

Thanks,

Laura

[Laubender]

Hi Laura,

if you have logos and/or technical drawings that require 100% K for black strokes and fills do not use SVG vector graphics. They come in RGB and must be converted to CMKY for offset printing. Without special software that would always mean the conversion is creating blacks with CMY plus K components. Better ask your client to provide offset print ready vector files in Illustrator format or PDF/X-4.

Regards,
Uwe Laubender

( ACP )

[LauraFig]

Thank you!

[rob day]

Hi Laura, As Uwe suggests you can save a CMYK mode Illustrator document as SVG but the color fills get converted to RGB on the save. SVGs also do not include color profiles, which could create additional color problems when they do have to be converted to CMYK. It might be worth placing your SVGs on an InDesign page, Export the page to PDF/X-4, and use Acrobat’s Output Preview>Object Inspector to inspect the SVG object.

Here’s what happens to a CMYK 0|0|0|100 fill:

Saved SVG placed—InDesign’s Separation Preview shows the black fill will convert into 4-color when the export or print is to Document CMYK:

The page exported to default PDF/X-4—No Color Conversion. Object Inspector shows the fill as RGB with the InDesign RGB profile embedded:

[Eugene Tyson]

Is there no way to put in CMYK colour build and have a fallback for the RGB?

[Laubender]

Hi Eugene,

SVG specs tell, that there could be a fall back to CMYK.

But this is not a finalized standard. Or, if it is now, nobody has implemented it.

( It's two years ago I checked this and did some tests with no result… )

ISO standards take time to implement as we can see with PDF 2.0 that is nowhere to be seen fully or sometimes even partly implemented with Adobe software. Only with specialized tools for handling PDF.

Regards,
Uwe Laubender

( ACP )

[LauraFig]

So much helpful information from everyone. I now feel more confident about going back to my client and ask about this!

[Brad @ Roaring Mouse]

SVG can only contain RGB, and are assumed by SVG spec to be in the sRGB colorspace. Forget about Pantone/spot colour specifications while you are at it. Even if your graphic has a different ICC assigned (say, Adobe RGB), it will be converted to sRGB.

Some say a future spec will allow other colour modes, and some say there is a way to embed a diffeernt ICC profile, but that's not now, practically.

Although it is possible to save an SVG out of Illustrator and piggy-back the Illustrator editing ability along with it, this "fork" is only of use to Illlustrator. e.g. InDesign (and other programs) will import only the information related to the SVG fork. Your best chance is that they have done this, so you can open them in Illustrator and save as a format more appropriate for your workflow.

I can't imagine anyone in their right mind would use SVG as their main format for branding with the inherit limitations, but, ya know.

-Brad

[Willi Adelberger]

For print I would never use SVG, but for EPUB it is fine and helps to reduce the file size with crispy lines at the end.

[rob day]

Hi Brad @ Roaring Mouse , It looks to me like the color in an Illustrator CMYK document gets converted to the Illustrator Color Settings’ RGB Working Space on an SVG export and the profile is not included, so I don’t think we can assume sRGB would be the correct profile. The SVG with no profile gets paced into InDesign as DeviceRGB, so its original color appearance would change depending on the ID document’s RGB assignment.

Here I’ve made an illustrator CMYK 100|0|20|0 fill. The document’s CMYK profile is default USWeb Coated SWOP, and the current Illustrator RGB Working Space is ProPhoto RGB:

If I Export and place the SVG in an InDesign doc with sRGB as the assigned RGB profile, I see that the color appearance in InDesign doesn’t remotely resemble the original Illustrator CMYK appearance:

I can get a match if I set the ID RGB assignment to match Illustrator’s ProPhoto RGB Working Space, but it would be difficult to stay on top of the RGB assignments and working spaces with an RGB only format that doesn’t allow profile embedding:

[Brad @ Roaring Mouse]

"I don’t think we can assume sRGB would be the correct profile."

Exactly. there's nothing in an SVG file that states the proper profile, and since current SVG 1.1 official specs dictates that all colors are assumed sRGB, any viewer/program, without knowing what the proper profile is, will read it as sRGB, which would definitely show the colors incorrectly. This is not a good workflow for branding!

I did a couple of test files myself using sRGB for one and ProPhoto for the other. Saved both as 1) JPG without embedded ICC; 2) JPG with ICC embedded; then 3) as SVG.

I used Graphic Converter as a third party opinion. GC opened  Set 1) and showed properly "No Profile". Opened set 2) and showed the correct ICC respectively. Opened set 3) and File Info showed a profile of "sRGB" for both, despite wildly different color values.

Apparently SVG 2 is looking to include ICC profile and Named Color support, but they've been working on this for years, so who knows when this will get sorted out.

[LauraFig]

Thanks!

[LauraFig]

Thank you!

[Laubender]

Brad Fisher said:

" there's nothing in an SVG file that states the proper profile, and since current SVG 1.1 official specs dictates that all colors are assumed sRGB, any viewer/program, without knowing what the proper profile is, will read it as sRGB, which would definitely show the colors incorrectly. This is not a good workflow for branding! "

Well, if one has control over the branding one can simply define the colors for an SVG graphic.And also state that they are meant for sRGB only. In the case of Laura the question is if there are any specs for print publishing. As I understand she only deals with someone savvy in web publishing.

Laura, it may help you to look into this:

https://www.gamutmap.com/

https://www.gamutmap.com/site/content/howto

https://www.freiefarbe.de/en/

Regards,
Uwe Laubender

( ACP )

[LauraFig]

Thanks!