Creating Magazine with bleeds

[openskies2009]

I have a 28 page magazine plus cover with facing pages with a .125 bleed on 8.5x11in pages with a two page spread design. When designing artwork I have to design passed to the bleed area which makes the page width 8.5 + bleed on the edges that face outside. The way that we work is pages need to be arranged and the order needs to be sorted right before we go to print. So now the left pages are the right hand side and visa versa, causing the bleed edges to be recut so that iut doesnt bleed into the other page. Is there any other way to design so I don't need to keep going back and redesign according to bleed?

[JonathanArias]

sounds like the re-arranging is the source of the issue. if you re-arrange the bleeds are off because of the placement.

you should be working single page versus spread so your bleeds are set up on both sides.  you can always make a spread later .

[Willi Adelberger]

no, that is not correct, as InDesign has styles which are relative to the spine and objects or texts with such styles become corrupted.

It is possible to separate pages from a spread to single left and right pages when you don't allow page shuffling in the page panel menu.

[openskies2009]

Im running into a problem when I turn off facing pages as my printer has requested, off. my master pages are screwed as I had them as Left and Right fall into the appropriate positions and then indesgin just uses my Left master page for all of the pages now single.

[BobLevine · Accepted solution]

Are you sure the printer requested that you do that in InDesign? I find it hard to understand why any printer would care how your InDesign file was set up. Once you send a PDF it will be individual pages, anyway.

Time for a phone call to get an explanation.

[openskies2009]

I was having a  hard time understanding the terminology everyone was using since I didn't go to any in person classes for this. I called adobe support and it took them sharing screen with me and answering a lot of what I imagine to be baby talk to start to understand what the problem and questions I was asking. The printer needed a not facing pages delivered, but then that messed up the master pages I had applied and how I would design within the bleeds (which would mess up when I was designing in facing pages mode), the trick was to turn Allow Document Pages to Shuffle off and do in this layout

[BobLevine]

The trick is actually to turn off inside bleeds, I suspect.

[rob day]

Im running into a problem when I turn off facing pages as my printer has requested,

You are misunderstanding the printer‘s request. When you export to PDF you have a choice of Spreads or Pages in the Export>General tab. Choosing Pages exports single pages whether the document is setup as facing pages or not. Acrobat lets you view pages as Two-up Facing, but they are still single pages :

And you don’t need to split your facing page spreads apart for magazine binding, just set the inside bleed to 0 as Bob suggests. You can do that in the document setup, or in the Marks and Bleeds tab. here I'm overriding the Document Setup:

[renaemp]

Converting from reader spreads to printer spreads shouldn’t change which side the page is on except for the front & back cover. If they do, then something went wrong. You can use Print Booklet to create a pre-imposed pdf, but if you need to send native files most print shops should be able to do that for you (at least they used to. Been seeing a lot of people saying otherwise of late).

[rob day]

shouldn’t change which side the page is on except for the front & back cover.

Even the cover should stay on the right side with the back cover on the left in a 2-up, 28 page imposition. It seems like the OP is referring to imposition, but not if the pages are changing sides.

[openskies2009]

The master pages reflect on the Left and Right of the pages with the page markers. So working with single page environment while designing would be extremely hard. Its a sponsorship magazine so we are adding new sponsorships and arranging pages to what the businesses payed for.

[rob day]

You still haven’t explained what you are trying to do. Are you trying to impose the pages into printer spreads for the magazine binding?  A screen capture would help.

[openskies2009]

No. I need to design in a two page layout next to each-other both the footer page numbers to be designed.

But when moving pages, I constantly have to adjust the bleed on the pages.

[BobLevine]

So, this isn’t imposition, just moving pages around? If that’s the case moving left pages to right or vice versa is going to result in what you’re seeing.

There is nothing you can do about it except plan a bit better and even then you’re going to be faced with this kind of thing.

Perhaps wait until the book is final before adding the bleeds.

[dannygarber]

Bob Gave the answer clearly and succinctly. If you have to rearrange pages that's part of the design process. Leave the imposition (whether you're designing single pages or spreads) to your printer. You could purchase Imposition software, but that's not your job and most every printer won't want you to do that. For final printing for magazines the process is to usually send single pages with bleeds and your printer will impose accordingly.

[rob day]

But when moving pages

So you are not trying to impose, you are just changing the layout design? The defined page bleeds wouldn’t change when you reorder pages, but if you are trying to maintain the page number position there's the Align to Spine paragraph justification setting.

Here I have the page numbers set to Align Towards Spine, with their container frames bleeding. If I where to change the order of these pages the folios would not change position:

[openskies2009]

I am not sure what "impose" within indesign is. It looks like I have an answer with the booklet function. But Id like to be able to print this to pdf

[BobLevine]

Just use file > export and choose Adobe PDF (print).

[rob day]

If you don’t know what imposition is you definitely shouldn't be handling that part of the print production.

Imposition - Wikipedia

Have you communicated with the printer? At the very least they would be able to run a simple 2-up imposition from an exported PDF out of Acrobat

[rob day]

Imposition is never done in the page layout. Normally the printer handles the imposition at output via their RIP or a plugin.

InDesign and Acrobat offer bare bones imposition via Print Booklet. At the very least your printer should be able to output your reader spreads as printer spreads via Acrobat’s Booklet feature.

With Print Booklet the pages get reorder when you print. So here you can see I have a 28 page document set up as reader spreads starting with page one to the right of the spine. The Print Booklet Preview showing the page 2-27 printer spread

[openskies2009]

Got it!!

Now is there anyway I can output this book format to PDF for preview? We send off to other clients via PDF for review so they can print and markup

[rob day]

openskies2009  wrote

Got it!!

Now is there anyway I can output this book format to PDF for preview? We send off to other clients via PDF for review so they can print and markup

Now I’m really confused. You wouldn’t need printer spreads for proofing and markup. The print imposition is only needed when the magazine is printed and has to be bound. Your client's wouldn't be binding the magazine proofs.

[SJRiegel]

openskies2009  wrote

The master pages reflect on the Left and Right of the pages with the page markers. So working with single page environment while designing would be extremely hard. Its a sponsorship magazine so we are adding new sponsorships and arranging pages to what the businesses payed for.

This method might be of help to you - it allows you to use left and right master pages, and still get a center bleed.

https://indesignsecrets.com/breaking-pages-apart-to-bleed-off-a-spine.php

[rob day]

A saddle stitched or perfect bound magazine would be folded and gathered—correct imposition would remove the inside bleed for the folded printer spreads—there’s never a need for an inside bleed with magazine printing.

It‘s too bad David doesn’t clarify in the post that typical bindings where the spreads are folded and gathered like saddle-stitch, perfect binding, smyth sewn, would never need his work around. Only more unusual bindings like wire-o, where the inside edge is visible and trimmed, need an inside bleed.

[SJRiegel]

My understanding is that is will be a standard binding with no need for an inside bleed - but that as they are developing the publication, the position of existing pages may have to change before the work is finished. This will cause pages to change sides of the binding, and necessitate fixing bleeds on the moved pages.

I think that the wire-o binding solution could also be of help in this case.