Different para marks

[m5heath]

In dumping some text from Word into ID, not a good practice I grant, I noticed some strange differences in the para marks that I have not noticed before. I have done an attached screenshot and annotated the various marks. The usual para mark I see in automatically entered text is the one in the green circle. However some of the para marks are bigger and examples are the red circles. I then noticed that the paras ending with the red circle mark leave slightly more leading before the last line (which of course I don't want).

And then I see there is a third variety in the clue circle.

The para style for all these paras is identical and very vanilla, separating the paras with a 3mm Space After.

I would be grateful for an explanation of the different types, whether I should/could change one for another, and how to correct the 'last line leading' anomaly with the red circles.

[James Gifford—NitroPress]

I thnk you'll find it's a case of text/paragraph overrides, albeit ones that are not visible in the actual text.

Select all the new text and reapply the paragraph style, using Clear Overrides if need be. Or turn on Show Overrides and let the pretty highlighting guide you to all the spots that need cleanup.

Word can embed all sorts of garbage in paragraph ends, and it doesn't show up until you try to apply other formatting or edit paragraphs together.

ETA: clean up the file or selected text in Word before moving it to ID. In this case, select the paragraphs and apply the base style to all of them so that hidden changes and overrides are removed.

[m5heath]

Hi James - you have helped me such a lot in the past!

I usually dump text into Notepad to remove all formatting but this time it was a relatively small amount so I didn't bother - mistake! However I did as you said and there were indeed para overrides which I cleared. That got rid of the 'red circle' para marks, replacing them with the 'blue circle' para marks. There are now a pot pourri of the two types of para marks (green and red circle types) at the end of paras. They both seem to have exactly the same (seemingly correct) effect and I wonder why they are different - there must surely be some difference in function?

[James Gifford—NitroPress · Accepted solution]

I just think you haven't scrubbed hard enough. 🙂

They all indicate that at the end, Word had different formats for each of these paragraphs. If you step through with the cursor, you might get changes of style or override indicators that give you some clue as to what's going on. In any case, a firm override-removal action and/or forcing the desired ID style on each, fully selected, should get rid of the differences. You really don't want those stealth overrides in there, as they will cause trouble sooner or later.

It is sometimes useful to Place a whole Word doc in a working ID document, with full stripping and override and style clearing in effect  — then tidy a little and cut/paste from there. That keeps from polluting your end document and lets you swing a bigger hammer without risking your doc's formatting and styles.

[m5heath]

I have to say I am baffled. I have changed para styles multiple times and even retyped paras completely but still it seems random whether the para mark is type green or type blue. Often the para mark stays type green (which seems to be the right one?) until I type the final stop and then it goes to type blue. Perhaps it doesn't matter as either stop seems to do exactly the same job on the page.

[Dave Creamer of IDEAS]

Select all your text in the import.

If this override button is clickable, click it.

Also make sure your Character Styles are set to None.

[Brad @ Roaring Mouse]

It's pretty common for people to improperly select and apply a style to a paragraph, mainly by not selecting the ENTIRE paragraph (e.g. Quadruple Click [fixed!]). They think that selecting the copy up to and including the period is enough, but it's not... the return has to be included. Too often I will get a client's file only to find the paragraph return is a totally different font (and size) than intended because they failed to do this, or, they've imported a wrord file that has done this as well.

In your file, select JUST one of the smaller returns, and see if it's what it's supposed to be. If not, you have an unintentional override because the entire paragraph wasn't selected.

[Dave Creamer of IDEAS]

If overrides are removed, it is not necessary to select the entire paragraph. Just click in the desired paragraph and apply a paragraph style. Of course, character styles are strictly selection based.

[m5heath]

For me, triple click selects a line. I have to quadruple click to select a para. But I am now getting no para overrides. Interestingly, I can correct the para mark by adding a space in front of it.

[Dave Creamer of IDEAS]

@m5heath You are correct, the default behavior is:

Double-click=word,

Triple-click=line (including single-line paragraphs),

Quadruple-click=paragraph,

Quintuple-click=Select All

If you hold your mouse down on the last click, you can drag over other text to select it. For example, if you hold down your mouse on the fourth click, other paragraphs will be selected as soon as your mouse "touches" them.

[Brad @ Roaring Mouse]

Oops, my bad, Yes, Quadruple-click! (Triple-click is in Word)

[Barb Binder]

Hi @m5heath:

Here are a few random thoughts/visuals to add to the excellent answers already on this thread:

• You can triple click a paragraph to select it, if you first disable Triple click to Select a Line in Preferences > Type. (It's one of the first things I do after an update because I never want to select a line).
• Your leading values are inconsistent in the first screen shot. You can take of this (forever on this version) by enabling Apply Leading to Entire Paragraphs.  
  
• Text files routinely carry in overrides into InDesign. I don't bother with a stop in Notepad, I just work with the style highlighter on [+] so that I can see them in cyan (highlighting indicates a character overrides, vertical lines indicate paragraph overrides) and then select all and remove overrides (as per Dave) with the¶* button. Both are in the Paragraph styles panel. (Sometimes the blue vertical lines linger, so I zoom in and out to refresh the screen).
  

~Barb

[m5heath]

Very good advice Barb - thankyou. I have made those changes to my preferences.

[Dave Creamer of IDEAS]

I don't set the apply leading to entire paragraph preference for two reasons:

• I never use auto leading so my spacing does not "flex" with different size type or fonts, so it's unnecessary.
• Reminds me of Quark 😜

I also like the flexibility of the triple/quadruple clicks. 

[m5heath]

Hi Dave - yes I get that. Horses for courses.