Document isn't adding pages as expected; allows overset instead

[Thomas_Calvin]

I have a spread with a primary text flow on each page. They are connected (which we know, because InDesign does not allow primary flows on facing pages if they aren't).

I have a one-page document (which, not surprisingly, starts on the right page). If I insert a page break and keep typing; or if I type a bunch of extra lines and then go up and insert a page break; or if I just add enough lines to overlow the page... InDesign isn't adding a new page. It's allowing it to be overset.

Previously (including in the file I copied to start this one), InDesign added pages. Why would this suddenly cease to happen? All files are members of the same book, by the way.

[Eugene Tyson · Accepted solution]

That would be in the Preferences - under Smart Text Reflow 

You have these options. 

If it's not working it's perhaps the Primary Text frame was overrident (released from the Parent Page)

Delete the text frame and reapply the Parent Page and should fix it. 

[Thomas_Calvin]

Thanks. Those settings were active, and I have no idea why the master page would've been overridden. I did have to delete the text box and re-apply the master page.

Now I'm concerned that previous documents in the book are similarly messed up in random places, breaking text flow and presenting the opportunity for text to be lost.

[Eugene Tyson]

Strange one - is it a lot of documents? Is there anything we can do to help speed up the checks? 
Let us know if you need further assistance.

[Thomas_Calvin]

Thanks, that's really nice. Not a huge number, and not that long. I'm creating a new manual and want to ensure that it's set up right for future maintenance.

[Barb Binder]

Hi @Thomas_Calvin!

Have you enabled View > Extras > Show Text Threads yet? That may help you track down the errant frames. 

~Barb

[Thomas_Calvin]

Thanks Barb! I was going to ask if there was some way to quickly review text flow. I just activated this, but I don't see any obvious clues on the screen. What am I supposed to see?

Ah, OK, it doesn't do anything unless you switch to the selection tool and then click on a text frame, even if the insertion point is sitting in a frame.

[Barb Binder]

Hi @Thomas_Calvin:

(And you go by Calvin and not Thomas, right?)

The feature shows the text frame threading (and yes, you need to have at least one of the frames selected with the Selection tool). You would expect the stories to continue sequentially but sometimes a frame is removed and content is placed/pasted in a new disconnected thread and the visible text threads update to show that the new story is disconnected. (The unexpected overset text you encountered is a clear warning sign, as is the red overset prefight error at the bottom middle of the screen.)

Another scenaro is overlapping frames. The primary frames are in place but someone didn't notice them/understand their role and placed/pasted text on top. That's harder to see because the threads may look ok. It might be on a page or two or in the example below, I'm flowing text over all of the primary frames. When I suspect that may be going on, I drag frames to the pasteboard to look. I can also look at the Layers panel—see the empty text frames? How to fix it depends on how it was done, but basically, you want to cut the text out of the layered frames, remove them and get it back into the primary frames. 

Looking ahead: educating the folks working on your files is how to prevent it moving forward. Unless they understand primary frames, some variation of this will happen at some point. 

~Barb

[Thomas_Calvin]

Thanks! I'm not sure how it happened. I'm the only one working on this thing at the moment (setting up a new book), but I suspect it happened when I converted a single-page layout to a two-page spread.

The good thing was that, although the primary flows were overlapped by another one (as you correctly guessed), they were all interconnected through the pages. So I went into Story view, selected all text, started a new document, and pasted the whole thing in. This resulted in a proper document with everything in the primary flow.

[Barb Binder]

And really that's the key take-away. Always add text (type, paste or place) into the existing threaded frames by clicking an insertion point into the story as the first step. 

Glad you are back on track!

~Barb

[Thomas_Calvin]

Actually, there's a bug here: If you duplicate a parent page (or spread), its primary text pane isn't marked as such in the duplicate. That's how you get text flowing from page to page, but not adding pages as needed: There's no "primary" flow.

[Dave Creamer of IDEAS]

Actually, there's a bug here: If you duplicate a parent page (or spread), its primary text pane isn't marked as such in the duplicate. That's how you get text flowing from page to page, but not adding pages as needed: There's no "primary" flow.

By @Thomas_Calvin

It's working fine on my system. Something else is going on.

[rob day]

I’m not using the latest version but seeing the same here:

[Thomas_Calvin]

Just tried it again, and yep, this time they were marked as primary in the duplicate. Who knows. I only had one master spread, and I haven't drawn a text frame in weeks. So... this is tiresome.

[rob day]

So... this is tiresome.

Can you share a document with the problem?

[Thomas_Calvin]

Thanks, but I already fixed it. It wouldn't have shown much anyway; It just had two identical page-to-page text flows in exactly the same position on each page. One just wasn't marked as primary (anymore). Somehow documents are occasionally ending up with another primary flow being added, and the former primary flow being un-flagged as primary.

When this happens, I have to copy all the text out of the now-non-primary flow, delete all the pages after page 1, delete the extra (now non-primary) text frame from page 1, and then paste into the primary flow.

[Robert at ID-Tasker]

[...] So I went into Story view, selected all text, started a new document, and pasted the whole thing in. This resulted in a proper document with everything in the primary flow.

By @Thomas_Calvin

But have you checked if text is in the correct order?

Few of my friends had a similar problem - their TextFrames were incorrectly threaded - text "looked good and in order" on pages - but was scrambled internally.

[Thomas_Calvin]

Thanks. I did, and it is in correct order.

[Barb Binder]

Hi @Thomas_Calvin:

I don't think I've seen your layout but I do think you are working on technical documentation that will eventually grow very lengthy. We typically use primary text frames for long document layout so that text can flow continuously from one spread to the next.

I can't picture any scenario when I would want to duplicate a spread when using primary frames.

I'm not here to defend Adobe—or InDesign—but I think of it like Flow A in FrameMaker., if that rings a bell. I'd never add a disconnected page—ok, a few exceptions like adding landscape tables to a portrait document—I'd just click and insertion point to add more content. If you have supporting graphic elements, they may—again may, since I can't picture your layout—be better suited to adding to parent pages?

~Barb

[Thomas_Calvin]

Hey Barb,

I don't want to add disconnected pages. I want to change the header and footer in part of our document, which comprises supplementary pages. So I created a new two-page-spread parent based on the "regular" parent that's used for the rest of the document, and then overrode the footer. Text should flow in this section like any other, and pages should be added when necessary. How else would one achieve this?

[Barb Binder]

Do you know about linked parent pages? You can duplicate and link parent pages—for example, A-Parent might be the top level parent, assigned to the majority of the  body pages. Then you add a new parent for pages that need to look different: perhaps called B-Parent and based on A-Parent so it is still using the same primary frames. You can then  override the running heads to look the way you need them to and assign them to select body pages. Because they are linked, changing A-Parent changes all body pages assigned A-Parent, along with B-Parent and all body pages assigned B-Parent. 

I can record a quick video to show this a bit later or in the morning. 

-~Barb

[Barb Binder]

Here's a quick demo, @Thomas_Calvin:

~Barb

[Thomas_Calvin]

Thanks Barb. That's basically what I did, with the difference being that I used "duplicate" instead of creating a new one "based on." I guess this option creates extra frames for everything, whereas "based on" doesn't. I've re-done it now.

Now I'm facing another perplexing problem: Pages aren't being added after the last page, despite the primary (and only) text flow being connected across pages and "Smart Text Reflow" being on, set to add pages to "end of story."

[Barb Binder]

Hi @Thomas_Calvin!

Let's start by double-checking that you are using primary frames since you have it set to (the default) Limit to Primary Frames. When you select a primary frame, the badge should be visible, even with Show Text Threads enabled.

~Barb

[Thomas_Calvin]

It doesn't appear on regular pages. It does appear on all parent pages, and indicates that it's the primary flow.