Editing or pasting text objects adds white space

[Tintenseher]

All my character, paragraph, and object styles have been set for several work-hours on a specific project. When I went back in today, however, editing certain text objects, copying and pasting them, or duplicating the entire page caused those objects to shift around, primarily by adding white space above the lettering (as though I'd added pre-paragraph spacing), but also changing the kerning or white space on the sides. Text that was previously frame-fit perfect was now not only too tall for the frame but somehow too long as well, and required both adjusting the frame height and reducing the text size or kerning to fit where it used to.

This screenshot demonstrates the problem. Above are three text frames that previously functioned as expected (although I'm not sure why the rightmost frame demanded so much extra space on the right when fit to content). Below are the same three text frames copied, pasted in place, and moved down, without editing their content or settings at all.

Here's what that looks like after I refit the frames to content, again without changing their settings or the text itself.

What's causing this? Is it fixable? I worked around it by manually adjutsing each affected frame, but it's a hueg hassle, and is happening to almost every part of my document.

[Scott Falkner]

Look in the Paragraph panel or the Control panel. I suspect you have Align to baseline grid turned on.

[Tintenseher]

Unfortunately, not the case. It's off on all affected frames (and doesn't appear to turn itself on when I copy/duplicate/edit them). Turning it on exacerbates the white space issue, but it's still there with it off.

[Laubender]

Hi Tintenseher,

I think this is an issue we already saw in other discussions here in the forum.

It could be that the applied font was from Adobe Fonts and is now replaced with a font of the same name from Google Fonts. Or the original font that was used was from Google Fonts and is now replaced with an activated font from Adobe Fonts.

What can you do? Change the start of the first baseline of the text frame to e.g. CAP HEIGHT.

Or apply the original font and do not substitute it with Google Fonts or an activated Adobe Font.

Let me see for other cases discussed…

Ah, here a case with the Roboto font; see my reply at:

https://community.adobe.com/t5/indesign-discussions/problems-with-baseline-shift-when-editing-text-b...

Problems with baseline shift when editing text boxes
cyclopsdx, Oct 26, 2020

https://community.adobe.com/t5/indesign-discussions/problems-with-baseline-shift-when-editing-text-b...

Regards,
Uwe Laubender

( ACP )

[Tintenseher]

I don't know when or how that kind of font subtstitution would have happened as this problem seemed to crop up overnight, but changing the offset to Cap Height did correctly raise the text back into the frame, so I will keep that in mind for future. However, it still hyphenates to the next line, implying the kerning has changed somehow.

I'm able to resolve the problem easier thanks to the advice given here, but I'm still not sure what's causing it. Ah, well.

[Laubender]

Cause of the problem could be a substitution of fonts.

Like I described in my reply before.

The problem itself is a bug with the first baseline offset in text frames and also text cells of a table.

This should not happen even if you substitute fonts. I proofed that with two different situations:

[1] Substitute a Google Fonts font style with an Adobe Fonts font style of the same name.

[2] Substitute an Adobe Fonts font style with a Google Fonts font style of the same name.

Did not observe a change in kerning or tracking when I did this.

Could you share an InDesign document where the issue happened?

One page with one text frame should be enough to test the case.

Thanks,
Uwe Laubender

( ACP )

[Tintenseher]

Not used to sharing from InDesign yet, sorry if I did this wrong — I've packaged one page with everything removed except the frames that exhibit the issue. Copy/pasting or editing any of them should trigger it. Let me know if I've attached too much/not enough (the file attachment box didn't seem to like most of the composite pieces).

[Laubender]

Hi Tintenseher,

thanks for the document.

Hm. I can see the same issue like you do if I simply duplicate some frames and move them a bit down like this:

Frames expanded:

Note: There is no additional tracking visible. Tracking value is still 0.

Also kerning is still metric. No change in values here as well.

As far as I can see the document is made with version 17.0.1.105 and was never saved with a different version of InDesign. All on Windows 10. I'm on the same operating system and version of InDesign.

In my test the used font was made available through a Document fonts folder.

When I duplicate the frames where the issue is not visible to a new document there is no issue for the moment.

As soon as I duplicate the frames in the new document I can see the problem.

I cannot fix the issue when I switch to a new paragraph composer or use optical kerning instead.

I could drag the formatted text with the issue to a new text frame, but the wrong rendering will not go away.

What helps: Set the tracking to value -43.

Regards,
Uwe Laubender

( ACP )

[Laubender]

Now I wonder what's wrong in your original text frames, the ones you sent with that document.

Maybe your document or the frames are damaged?

As soon as I change anything on the applied paragraph style I see a behavior of the font rendering that is different.

It is different compared to your original text frames, but the rendering is exactly the same as if I do a new document and begin to typeset with that Silkscreen TrueType font in a new text frame with the default settings of InDesign.

Regards,
Uwe Laubender

( ACP )

[Tintenseher]

I imagine it must be the case that something got corrupted at some point or I unwittingly messed with the font somehow; based on my work with the document, I cannot think of anything that might help identify a causal link to the start of the problem, but, at least with the tips you've given me, I'm able to work around it. It doesn't seem to be cropping up in new documents, either, so I suppose I'll chalk it up to a one-time bug and/or accident.

Thanks so much for your help and diligence, you've been very kind!

[Laubender]

"I imagine it must be the case that something got corrupted at some point or I unwittingly messed with the font somehow …"

Hm. The only thing I can think of is that there are several versions of this font available on the web. The document was built with one version and was continued with a different version of the font that has the same name.

Regards,
Uwe Laubender

( ACP )