Exported PDF converts black to gray

[_Sarah_Casey_]

Hello,

I am trying to export an InDesign CS3 document as a PDF, but all my blacks turn gray when previewed in Acrobat. I opened the PDF in Photoshop to sample the gray to make sure it wasn't a preview problem, but it is gray in Photoshop as well. I have tried using various PDF presets and various blacks (default black, CMYK build black, and Pantone black) with no positive results.

Any ideas would be welcome!

Thank you!

[HeyMikey]

Hi all,

Back again (had to step out to lunch--I was starving!) And boy, it sure is hot & muggy here in Dallas!

Hey Rob, to answer your question, I've compiled the details below:

1) I've opened/printed the PDF in Acrobat Pro 8.1.3, printed to both Ricoh 2510 and Epson SP3800, and got beautiful results.

2) I've opened/printed the PDF in Reader 9.1.1, printed to both Ricoh 2510 and Epson SP3800, same great results.

3) My setup is: MacPro; OSX 10.5.6; Adobe CS3 (all updates for all apps); the two printers outlined above.

As a control, I also printed the InDesign file, but of course that printed great as expected. What's more, on all the PDF prints, I examined them under a loupe, and for the Ricoh output, there is absolutely no sign of screening or dot, and the rules for the musical bars, notes, etc., are superbly rendered black rules. The inkjet output under a loupe shows solid blacks and again no sign of "lightening".

Interestingly enough, even at using different settings in the print dialogue of both Reader and Acrobat, I couldn't even reproduce the 'poor quality' output described. I guess that's a good thing, though, eh? That would lead me to think that whoever downloads the PDFs will have a good chance of getting good results, too. I used the default print settings in both Reader and Acrobat, and of course the correct print driver for the respective devices. I just hit the "Print" button without making any changes.

I'm stumped now, since I can't see the results you guys are seeing, and MY results seem to be the ideal expected output. Hmmm... I'm wondering if it could be an application/driver update issue on Jeffrey's end?

Keep posting if you find out what could be your issue, and hope my experiments help shed some light on the issue!

Cheers!

Mikey

[Kenneth C. Benson]

I'm seeing 100%K too, by eye on a printout, and through Output Preview (on an 8-year-old HP Laserjet).

I can manage some pretty crappy output if I Print as Image. This is one of those things I sometimes turn on when I have to print someone's malformed PDF. It's easy to forget to turn it off...

And I looked at your Indesign file and your TIFFs. Everything looks perfect.

I don't know your printers. My HP laser printer is a clonescript printer, so I can capture postscript output, distill it, and make a PDF (normally not a recommended workflow but possible, nonetheless). Can you print to your Epson or Brother but divert the output to a FILE port, capture the output, and distill it? I'm curious to see the resulting PDF, to get an idea of whether you're sending grays to the printer, or whether the printer is receiving blacks but printing grays.

Ken

[Guest]

I was having the same problem - able to print from InDesign okay, but as soon as I'd export to pdf it would be greyish. The issue seems to be in Acrobat itself, how you select it to show your file, whether for proofing, printing, etc. The file is not altered to grey, just the way you set Acrobat to view it. So here's what I did:

In Acrobat:

Advanced (in top menu bar)

    >  uncheck Proof Colors (pull down menu)

    > then if still gray, in same area roll over Proof Setup (menu will open to right) and

       >check Simulate Ink Black

I can't figure out who is having the problem with this, so hopefully you see this post. Thanks for a great forum.

[Jeffrey Dean]

Thanks, guys! The response to my query has been terrific. I tried starting a similar thread on the InDesign forum a couple of months ago, and got no response whatsoever, so it's been wonderful to have so much attention so quickly.

Unfortunately, I'm getting the impression that the problem is somewhere on my own system. Rob is right, the black shows up as 100% in both the ID text and the placed TIFF, but that doesn't stop it printing out as grey on a b/w laser printer. Ken's suggestion about unintentionally using "Print as Image" is a good one, but that was one of the first things I made sure of. Chaz's suggestion doesn't work for me, although I think we must be looking at different versions. My version of Acrobat Pro (9.1.2 for Mac) doesn't have Proof Colors in any menu, although InDesign CS4 does in the View menu. Neither application has Proof Setup, although in Acrobat Pro I can go to the Advanced menu, Print Production submenu, selection Output Preview..., which gives me the option "Simulate Ink Black", but that doesn't make any difference to the printed output.

I still find it strange that I should have the problem with two laser printers from different manufacturers (Epson and Brother), even though others are finding that HP and Ricoh printers are giving good output on their systems. I wonder whether there has been some development in Mac OS X, or in Acrobat for Mac (bear in mind that I have experiencing exactly the same results from Adobe Reader, now also 9.1.2 but giving this problem for several months now), that could be lying behind what I am seeing. Is anyone out there also using Mac OS X 10.5.x, InDesign CS4, and Acrobat Pro/Adobe Reader 9?

Jeff

[Kenneth C. Benson]

Jeff, did you understand what I was saying about printing from Acrobat to a file? It would give you some indication whether Acrobat is seeing blacks and printing grays, or whether Acrobat is printing blacks and your printer is interpreting this as grays.

Ken

[Jeffrey Dean]

Thanks for reminding me about that point, Ken. I don't seem to be able to do what you want. When I try to Save as PDF from the Print dialog in Acrobat Pro, it tells me "Saving a PDF file when printing is not supported. Instead, choose File > Save." Which is not what you had in mind. I CAN save as PostScript -- would that tell you what you want to find out? Or is there another method of diverting a file out of the print queue in Mac OS X? I've never tried doing this before.

Jeff

[Peter Spier]

Yu should be able to choose the Adobe PDF virtual printer from the list if a full version of Acrobat is installed

[Jeffrey Dean]

Yes, but that bypasses the printer driver, which I think is what Ken was trying to intercept.

[Peter Spier]

It should show if the data being sent from Acrobat to the driver is 100% black or not, which is what you're trying to find out. It doesn't matter, I think, WHICH driver you send to. If the color in the printed PDF matches the original, the problem is between the print dialog and your printer, not in what Acrobat is sending.

[Jeffrey Dean]

Well, we'd already established that the black was registering as 100% by inspecting the primary PDF file. For what it's worth, the secondary PDF generated by printing the PDF to PDF also shows 100% in Output Preview. The problem is, Why does this come out as grey when I print it on one of my laser printers?

[Peter Spier]

There is some color management happening, likely at the printer.

[Kenneth C. Benson]

When I try to Save as PDF from the Print dialog in Acrobat Pro, it tells me "Saving a PDF file when printing is not supported. Instead, choose File > Save." Which is not what you had in mind. I CAN save as PostScript -- would that tell you what you want to find out? Or is there another method of diverting a file out of the print queue in Mac OS X? I've never tried doing this before.

Sure. Save as Postscript is exactly what I had in mind, as long as you're saving the same print stream that would normally be going to your printer. I can't tell you much about Macs. On Windows, you can change the printer's Port in Control Panel > Printers. You probably have something similar. My Laserjet is on a network port, but I can change the port to FILE. If I change it to FILE, after I OK the print dialog, it will bring up a dialog asking for a filename and path, I enter filename and path, OK it, and a .ps file is created.

Then I would use Distiller to convert the PS file back to PDF and see whether the blacks are coming out black or not. This would tell you whether the problem is in what you're sending or in how the printer is interpreting what you're sending.

Ken

[kidinasweetshop]

I had the problem of grey text when creating PDFs from Quark Xpress 6.5. As someone else pointed out CMYK black isn't jet-black, that's achieved by mixing percentages of the other colours. And that was the clue for me. I don't use Indesign but in Quark, go to Edit in top menu and select Print Styles from the list. Then select New, then Output. Change Print Colours from Composite CMYK to Composite RGB. Bingo! Rich black. Hope this is some use for Quarkies.

Tim

[Kenneth C. Benson]

As someone else pointed out CMYK black isn't jet-black, that's achieved by mixing percentages of the other colours.

No. Real process black is 100% K. It's black ink, not mixed.

The problem here is that the OP is not printing on an offset press. He's printing to a color laser printer that may or may not be mixing colors to achieve black.

Ken

[Kenneth C. Benson]

This got me interested in the printer. I googled the Epson and came up with a review (http://reviews.cnet.com/multifunction-devices/epson-aculaser-cx11nf-multifunction/4505-3181_7-31476894.html) that mentions grayish blacks, specifically, "Some aspects of the Epson AcuLaser CX11NF's prints disappointed us, particularly the grayish look of its plain black text, which was blurry at small sizes."

This doesn't explain the Brother printer, though, which is monochrome, and the two reviews I read were ecstatic about its print quality.

Ken

[Jeffrey Dean]

No, no, no! My problem is that I'm getting a DIFFERENT result depending on whether I print the InDesign file in InDesign (which gives me true black text) or print the PDF generated by InDesign in Adobe Reader or Acrobat Pro (which gives me grey text). The printers know the difference; what I don't know is where the difference is coming from! And remember I'm telling InDesign to Output all Black as Rich Black, not just as 100%K.

I do think the Brother printer is superior for black-and-white printing; its one fault is that it runs both hot and fast, so the paper tends to curl in long runs. The Epson is satisfactory for black-and-white, but really pretty good for color.

Jeff

[Kenneth C. Benson]

I know, different, I'm just thinking maybe PC World was printing PDFs for its test too...

Ken

[jmandarano@rebgv.org]

Sarah, I had the same issue and think I may have resolved it.

When exporting from inDesign to PDF, click on the "output" tab when the export PDF screen pops up, and then change Color, Desitation: to ColorMatch RGB

Then export to PDF. When I did this, my blacks all matched up! 

Hope it works for you.

Julie