Fully embedding fonts in PDF

[curela]

Hi,

I had a piece of information but I can't seem to find it anymore so I have to ask ...

This is about understanding limitations of fully embedding fonts in a PDF (from Indesign Server). Actually it's about one limitation in particular. I know fonts with licensing issues or fonts that are marked "embedded not allowed" will not be embedded. Also, there is a threshold that I need to set.

So, I recall reading somewhere that Indesign will not fully embed "standard" fonts. Is that correct and what is this standard fonts category?

Oh, reading through some posts, I noticed lots of people and experts ask why does one need fully embedded fonts. That's a good question and I don't know the root reason but in my case it seems that some regulatory agencies (in the life sciences/pharma domain) require PDFs with fully embedded fonts.

Many thanks

Cristian

[Test Screen Name]

It's worth using the preflight in Acrobat Pro to validate the file you sent them As PDF/X-1a Does it pass, or give the same error?

[ORGramps]

Please forgive the typo in my original post.  The file format I used and got the error message was a PDFX-1a (SWOP).

I have since tried it with PDFX-1a and get the same error message.  I have also used the Acrobat Pro Preflight Fixups 1. Embed Fonts and 2. Embed Fonts (even if text is invisible).  I get the same error message: "FONTS CONTAIN MISSING GLYPHS OR ARE NOT FULLY EMBEDDED IN THE PDF*: We require that all fonts be embedded, with no missing glyphs. Please submit a new file with all fonts properly embedded. Saving a file using the default PDF/X-1a:2001 setting will eliminate this issue. You may refer to the File Creation Guide for further instructions on creating a compliant PDF."  With the following additional  statement "We are unable to process files with this issue.  Please correct this issue and upload new files."

Do I need to go to InDesign or the latest version of Acrobat Pro?

[rob day]

Set Advanced>Subset fonts when percent of characters used is less than to 0%

There's nothing in the PDF/X standard that requires the entire font to be embedded

[rob day]

See Dov's #4 (3)

[Dov Isaacs]

I assume this “error message” about Fonts contain missing glyphs or are not fully embedded in the PDF is not coming from Acrobat Preflight, correct?

To be very clear, absolutely no internationally-recognized PDF standard, whether it be PDF/X-1a, PDF/X-3, PDF/X-4, PDF/A ,etc., require embedded fonts to be fully embedded, i.e., the full font, not just the glyphs referenced in text within the PDF file, are embedded. Furthermore, absolutely no Adobe product including our layout, design, PDF manipulation, and PDF rendering products requires that fonts be “fully embedded” as opposed to “subset embedded.” In terms of RIP operations, having the full font embedded buys absolutely nothing in terms of output reliability and quality.

There is only one case in which a fully-embedded font is necessary. That is the case in which you create a PDF form and use a non-base 14 font for the form fields. In that particular case, Acrobat will embed the full font (noting of course that you can only specify fonts for forms fields that allow editable embedding in their embedding privileges).

Note that embedding a full font does not enable one to edit text in a PDF file using that embedded font. Acrobat always requires that any font involved with PDF text editing be installed on the user's system (this is due to both technical and legal issues).

          - Dov

[Derek Cross]

So Dov, in Acrobat PDF forms we should always select a system font for the text entry fields – right?

[Dov Isaacs]

I did not say that. But if you use a non-system font (i.e., Helvetica/Arial, Times/Times New Roman, Courier/Courier New), you must first check that its embedding privileges are either installable or editable embedding.

Note that InDesign's interface to Acrobat Forms does not directly allow for choice of font for fields.

Also note that to force the embedding if editing in Acrobat, make sure to try filling a forms field before saving. That will force the font embedding on the forms creation system.

          - Dov

[Derek Cross]

Thanks.

[rob day]

I assume this “error message” about Fonts contain missing glyphs or are not fully embedded in the PDF is not coming from Acrobat Preflight, correct?

See #16 it appears to be a communication from the printer, so setting the subsetting to 0% even if it's not necessary should satisfy them.

[Dov Isaacs]

Actually it won't since setting subsetting to 0% won't necessarily result in a font being fully embedded. The font might still show up in PDF properties/Fonts (Ctrl-D, Command-D) as subset embedded!

          - Dov

[rob day]

The font might still show up in PDF properties/Fonts (Ctrl-D, Command-D) as subset embedded!

But the OP could check that before sending the PDF to the printer

[Dov Isaacs]

That certainly is true, but I think that it is better to get the particular printer to eliminate a totally ridiculous, unnecessary requirement that in the general case cannot be met. For example, using the 0% subsetting hack, InDesign PDF export will not embed the full Arial Regular or Times New Roman Regular typefaces.

This fully embedded font mishegoss requirement (similar to somewhat common outline all text requirement) has to be stopped and the best way to do so is for customers to refuse to comply and if necessary find other printers who aren't so ignorant, arrogant, or both.

          - Dov

[ORGramps]

Thanks for all the helpful input from Dov et al.  As my "tool kit" only includes Adobe Acrobat Pro 11.0.13, I do not have access to the setting suggested for In Design.  However,  I have tested my PDFX-1a (SWOP) book file through Preflight for compliance and it fails.  The error reported is: " Glyphs missing in embedded fonts (216 matches in 118 pages).   Acrobat's error message goes on with the following: "All fonts embedded into a PDF have to contain glyphs for all characters in the PDF.  This is required by some PDF-based ISO standards such as PDFX."

It appears I have a major problem.  The file I am working on was created by a professional service who scanned pages from a book and then converted those images to a PDF file.  I have made changes in the file using Acrobat Pro (new copyright, publisher, etc), but to confirm the problem stems from my original master PDF file, I converted it to PDFX-1a and checked it's compliance.  I received the same error message.

So, I seem to be at a brick wall.  I have printed the book using my PDFX-1a (SWOP) file with another printer.  However, the new and larger printer I am working with gives me the message that my book file is not printable (see my first entry 9/27/17)).  I'm getting "out-glyphed"!

Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated.

     Rex

[Test Screen Name]

Did you try using Verify in preflight to check the file?