How can I fix a glitchy Master (Parent) page?

[VermiciousKnid]

I have a Master (aka Parent) page that has an apparently demonic text box. No matter how many times I unlock it and delete it on the linked (aka Child) page in the document, the text box stays there. (I have tried doing it like 12 times in a row; the delete button is powerless.) I tried rebuilding the document page; the glitch remains. I tried rebuilding the Master page; the glitch remains. The lefthand pages that use the same facing-page Master pages are fine; the righthand pages have this vexing text box that will not go away or allow changes.

If I unlock that text box on the Child page and type a new word in, it seems to allow it, but apparently puts a second text box on top of the original, so there are two words illegibly on top of each other. (Screenshots: the word "Schedule" is in the demonic Master-page box; you can see in the second screenshot that I unlocked it and tried to replace the word "Schedule" with "Maps." The words just sit on top of each other, because the unlocked text box apparently put a clone of itself underneath.) 

I have tried rebuilding document pages, rebuilding Master pages, restarting, and checking for locked layers and text boxes. Even if I delete the text box from the Layers palette, it still sits in the document. What is going on here? Does anyone have any ideas? Thank you.

specs: iMac 2020, Sonoma 14.6.1

InDesign 20.5

[Peter Spier]

I think this is going to require examination of the file.

Can you post a smaple with the parent and a couple of child pages, content needn't be real.

[VermiciousKnid]

Thanks for the reply, and sorry for the delay. This is interesting: I made a copy of the file and threw away a lot of pages to put in placeholder text, and now the problem is gone. So maybe there's a glitch in one of the other text boxes that's affecting the demonic header text box, or something. So I guess I'll just have to delete things until I find it. 

But while I'm at it, I have another Parent page problem (maybe I should start a new thread): a page number disappeared, so I tried re-applying the Parent page to the Child page to get it back. But re-applying the Parent page removed the text box I had unlocked and edited on the Child page. My memory from previous years is that, once you've unlocked something from the Parent page and made changes to it, it will sit on the Child page until you delete it. Has that changed? And if so, how can I re-apply the page number box (or another missing item) from the Parent page without erasing all the changes I made to the Child page?

[Peter Spier]

My memory of overrideend master pages items matched yours, but I just checked, and since at least CS6 reapplying the master page has removed any overrides, so I guess we're both mistaken.

I did some more thinking yesterday about potential causes for the first problem, amnd I suspect there's an errant second text frame on the Parent Page, but I'd have to see the layers panel expanded to verify.

All of that said, I see perhaps a larger problem here, and that's how you aree utilizing your Parent Pages. This is largely a matter of philosophy, but to my mind if something is going to be altered by the user on the document page, it does not belong on the Parent page at all in most cases. Parents should contain only repetitive content like guides, headers and footers, or backgrounds that will appear on multiple pages. I don't even like having a Primary Text Frame as I find InDesign's Smart Text Reflow often causes more problems than it solves.

[VermiciousKnid]

I find that the way it works is inconsistent--sometimes reapplying a Parent page to a Child page removes an edited text box, and sometimes it leaves it. But it doesn't make sense to me that reapplying a Parent  should remove all overrides, because if you wanted a totally unedited page that reflected the Parent, you could just insert a fresh Child page.

re: philosophy

To me, it gets crazy to have a zillion Parent pages. I have examples in this document where the only thing being changed is header wording on one page. I don't feel like one or pages should need an entirely different Parent just to change a few words. 

>if something is going to be altered by the user on the document page, it does not belong on the Parent page at all.... I don't even like having a Primary Text Frame

So how do you handle primary text boxes? I often put them on the Parent page so they're all in the same place and have the same default styling, and then unlock them to put in the appropriate text, but for this document that had some problems (and also had some advantages). 

[Peter Spier]

Let me simplifiy this a bit. If you are going to make a change to an object on the docment page, you need a REALLY good reason for it to be on the Parent page, and maintaining positin is not, in my opinion, good enough in a long document.

I never use Primary Text Frames (I've been using InDesing since long before they were added and never needed them). Text frame size and position are controled with the margins, and I use the Shift Key when placing text to autoflow and add pages as necessary.

You can define any set of parameters you like for a text frame object style and set it as your default. You can even define multiple text frame object styles and switch between them as needed. In fact you don't even need to define the object style if you define your paragraph styles and select them as required before placing the text, but again, in a long doc, object styles can be a big help.