how to remove this display problem

[pierret18811376]

Hello,

I have made a scan to PDF in acrobat pro.

Then in InDesign I have used the function Script / "Place multipage page PDF".

But here is the result in InDesign : you can see at the bottom a display problem (like a staircase) : 

If I change the display quality in InDesign (from standard to superior), this display problem is always here.

If I see the same PDF in Acrobat Pro, there is no display problem.

How to remove this display problem inside InDesign ?

[Manan Joshi]

I am not sure if this has something to do with the script. Can you try placing the pdf manually like using Cmd+D shortcut on the MAC and see if the issue still persists.

-Manan

[pierret18811376]

I have tried to place this PDF in Indesign by using three other ways :

- by moving the PDF from the desktop to InDesign with the mouse.

- by selecting File / Import

- by using Control + D

Result : same display problem inside InDesign.

[Manan Joshi]

Ok, so as I suspected we can remove the script from the list of suspects as other means of placing the pdf also produce the same faulty result. Now the other things we can try are

• Does changing the pdf import options have any effect on the result
• If you export the InDesign document with the pdf placed does it also manifest the same issue. If not then we can conclude that this is just an display problem and not something wrong with the file. In such a case we can file a bug with the InDesign team.

I hope some experts in PDF could also have a look at this if this indeed seems to be a problem with the PDF.

-Manan

[pierret18811376]

1) If I change PDF import options in InDesign, nothing happens (same problem).

2) Exporting the PDF from InDesign to the desktop :

My InDesign document is 135 x 215 mm, so in InDesign I place the PDF file inside the 135 x 215 mm bloc (we can see the display problem at the bottom of the bloc) : 

Then I export the PDF to the desktop. And if I see this exported PDF file inside Acrobat Pro, we can see that the display problem at the bottom has disappeared :

[jmlevy]

Je pense que c'est lié au fait que l'image (ou le bloc) a subi une rotation. Et sur la capture, on voit bien qu'il s'agit d'une prévisu standard. Ou alors l'image a été scannée avec un certain angle, ou à une résolution insuffisante.

[pierret18811376]

1) For this PDF inside InDesign, I have not made a rotation of the PDF. And you can see here that the PDF was created in Acrobat Pro by checking the option "image straightening" :

2) If I try to change the scan quality inside Acrobat Pro (to superior quality), and if I import this new PDF in InDesign, I have the same display problem in InDesign.

Here is the selection of scan quality inside Acrobat Pro :

[Peter Spier]

As jmlevy suggestes above this looks to be caused by image rotation, or perhaps by a skewed page on the scanner bed (or even a hardware problem in the scanner).  This would be accentuated by a low effective resolution. What is the effective resolution of the image as it appears in InDesign?

Does it show in an exported PDF of the page from InDesign?

Does it show in a print?

[pierret18811376]

>What is the effective resolution of the image as it appears in InDesign?

In Indesign, where to see the "effective resolution" of this PDF ?

[BobLevine]

You can't get resolution information for a PDF and I would love to know what the purpose of this exercise is. Why are you scanning a book just to put it in InDesign?

[Frans v.d. Geest]

Yes Bob, I'm curious as well! This is the third or fourth question the same OP posted here about his scanned PDF...

[Laubender]

Hi Pierre,

I do not think there is a solution that would be perfect.

The placed PDF page is rotated. I also have to live sometimes with display effects like that when I rotate placed images.

FWIW: One could rotate the image pixels inside the PDF, but that would perhaps cause real quality issues.

Regards,
Uwe Laubender

( ACP )

[pierret18811376]

The pages I want to scan is 4 pages from this book. So I have made a full scan to PDF (4 pages) in max quality, by using Acrobat Pro.

For the full scan, some pages are rotated, and some are not rotated. But Acrobat Pro rotate the pages automatically.

The result in Acrobat Pro is very good (no display problem).

The result in InDesign (by importing all pages with the script "Place multiPages PDF") is showing display problem on all  pages (pages rotated and pages not rotated).

[BobLevine]

I'm not sure what happens when you scan via Acrobat, but I wonder if there's some cropping going on that isn't being honored on the initial place command in InDesign.

Try use the show options feature when placing it. What are your choices?

If there's nothing useful there, place it and then crop it slightly using the frame.

[Peter Spier]

True, you can't get resolution info for the PDF directly in InDesign, but it would be good to know what the scanner resolution was, and the scaling factor. My guess is the scan settings are for RGB at not more than 300 PPI, and you'd probably get a better result scanning as grayscale or bitmap at 1200 (if the scanner can do it  -- no point in going beyond the optical resolution maximum).

I'm inclined to think this is more likely page skew than image rotation -- the rotation is slight, the text seems to be running up hill to match the bottom of the page, and the vertical edge seems to be straight, and there is no way I can find to set rotation before the imageis placed, so it seems hard to believe that's what happened.

And as Bob says, cropping off the page edge would solve the problem.

[rob day]

Hi @pierret18811376 , what hardware are you using to make the scan you are bringing into Acrobat? I assume the reason for using Acrobat is to OCR the text, but you don’t seem to be doing that? Most scanner software lets you choose the output image format—TIFF, JPEG, PDF, etc—if you don’t need to OCR it might be better to scan to an image format. There are also scripts that will automate image placement.

[pierret18811376]

About scanner device resolution, if I go in Acrobat Pro scan settings I can see that I have a maximum of 300 ppp :

For the created PDF that I use inside InDesign, I was on 300 ppp.

As you can see, I was also with OCR checked.

According to what you have said, I have made a test by unchecking OCR and making a full scan (4 pages).

The result : in Indesign, the problem has gone, but some pages are not rotated and I have pages with some skewed pages, so I am obliged to rotate and change the angle, but by doing that, the problems appears again ...

[BobLevine]

Scan as TIF, bring it into Photoshop, clean it up, place in InDesign.

It's only four pages and you're making way more work out of this than you need to.

[pierret18811376]

Unfortunately, I have not Photoshop. 

[Peter Spier]

If you check the box to use the scanner interface you may have options for higher resolution.

[pierret18811376]

I really need to use the Acrobat Pro OCR during scan, because Acrobat Pro makes automatically the rotate and prevent skewed pages. 

About the PDF file from scan created with Acrobat Pro, and about this PDF exported from InDesign to desktop, Acrobat Pro can see it without display problem. So I don't understand why InDesign cannot (display problems).

[jmlevy]

Are you absolutely sure that the pictures are displayed in “qualité supérieure”? This display problem may also occur if the image is rescaled in InDesign.  In your case, I think that it has been scaled down. What percentage do you read? But anyway, the only thing that matters is the final PDF that you will output from this indesign file. If it is OK in the PDF, no reason to worry.

[pierret18811376]

The exported PDF from InDesign to desktop has a very good quality.

But inside InDesign, this display problem gives me some problems to crop with the mouse around the PDF : this display like a staircase prevent me to select the crop limit around the PDF with the mouse very precisely.

About what I see in acrobat pro scan settings, I was with 300 ppp and max quality. And the PDF was imported in InDesign as it was created in Acrobat. In Acrobat Pro scan settings the compression had been also unchecked.

[Peter Spier]

It is extremely difficult, if not impossible to get a perfectly aligned scan on a flatbed scanner, especially when scanning a book. To work around this you could try cropping to a smaller size, then use a gradient feather to disguise the transition to a larger frame behind that has a slight color fill (match the scan as best you can) and apply the drop shadow to that background frame.

As Bob says, though, it would be a lot easier to clean this up in Photoshop (which should be available if you have a full CC subscription). Even better might be to use Acrobat's OCR, correct any errors, then export that as a Word or .rtf file and place into InDesign rather than using images of the pages. That way you would have live, editable, text that would also be searchable in your final exported PDF.

[jmlevy]

Since Pierre does obviously speak french, I will answer in French, that will be much easier. Sorry, guys…

D'après ce que je comprends de tes nombreux posts, le document que tu mets en page a des dimensions de 215 mm x 135, et les scans que tu importes sont des A4 à 300 dpi, ce qui implique que les images sont réduites dans le document InDesign et si je calcule bien, à 64,5 %. De plus, tu as coché l'option OCR, ce qui fait qu'Acrobat a effectué une rotaion aux pages scannées de manière à ce que les lignes soient horizontales. Le fait que l'image soit réduite peut augmenter l'effet d'escalier que tu vois. Étant donné que la page scannée contient les marges du livre, tu pourrais agrandir légèrement l'image (pas le bloc) de manière à ce que la partie inclinée ne soit plus visible pour résoudre ton problème.

Mais j'ai plusieurs questions :

1.  comment ce document va-t-il être imprimé ? Si tu l'envoies à un imprimeur, il faut prévoir des fonds perdus (3 à 5 mm) : il faut que les images importées dépassent des limites du document final.
2.  tu veux que ces pages de livre, scannées apparaissent clairement comme des images ? Sinon, il aurait été plus simple d'effectuer une ROC de toutes les pages scannées puis d'importer ce texte dans des blocs textes et pas comme des images.