Image color settings lost in IDML conversion

[dmsduco]

I have a document with some local color settings applied to the image using Graphics > Image Color Settings...

The images are set to sRGB... After a round trip to IDML, this is set back to Use Document Default.

Am I overlooking something here, or is this a bug?

The IDML is used for translatation of the document. Because of this issue, I noticed color changes in a translated document.

[Randy Hagan]

I'd like to help, but I'd need more information to lend a hand, like:

What version of InDesign was used to generate the .idml file?

What version of InDesign was the .idml file opened in to generate the alert you shared with us?

Was the file opened in the same machine that generated it?

If not, do both machines have the same color settings?

What are the overall color settings for InDesign on the machine(s)?

Were all of the graphics changed to your specific local settings, or only some of them?

Were the specific local color settings also RGB based?

In general, output of InDesign files will correspond to the color settings of the application. Especially if there are conflicting color settings within the source file. Answers to the questions above will help us — and you — resolve the source of any perceived problems.

Hope this helps,

Randy

[Laubender]

Hi dmsduco ,

that's rather unusual. At least if you stick with InDesign.

Just tested this with a placed RGB image that has no ICC profile saved with.

Applied sRGB. It will show with a little + in front of the profile name in the Links panel:

Saved as IDML file, changed the Color Settings of InDesign to something entirely else and opened the IDML file with the same version of InDesign plus with an older version. No issue so far. The applied sRGB was still sticking with the image. Did that even if I turned OFF color management which no one really should do:

Hm. What is the translation software that handled the IDML file?

Regards,
Uwe

[rob day]

I'm seeing the same as Uwe, an image setting override is kept with an INDD to IDML to INDD round trip. It does sound like the IDML xml is being edited and resaved? If that's the case it is probably happening during the edit.

Are you trying to re-assign a profile to an image that has another profile assigned, or are you assigning a profile to an RGB image that has no embedded profile? If it's the later, you shouldn't need to use Object>Image Color Settings. RGB images with no embedded profile automatically get the document‘s RGB profile assignment. So if you want an untagged image to get sRGB assigned, just make sure the ID doc is assigned sRGB via Edit>Assign Profiles...

[dmsduco]

Ok so here’s a little more info.

• Generated and opened in the same InDesign installation (14.0.2 on macOS)
• The issues happens even without translating the IDML, so our translation software isn’t the culprit.

Application color settings:

Document color settings:

Note that this is an old document with lots of stuff. That's why I don't alter the document settings (to working space) and applied the local override of the placed image.

The image has sRGB embedded. I'm not sure why the document color setting (Adobe RGB) wins it from the Preserve Embedded Profiles setting.

It's not a huge issues btw. But I'm curious as to what's the reason here to avoid issues in the future.

[dmsduco]

Sorry for the double post. The previous one was from yesterday, I forgot to hit the post button

I tested by copying the design to a new document with the same document color settings. With that document, the image color settings DO survive the IDML round trip. So I guess there must be some issue with the InDesign document (which unfortunately I cannot post due to privacy reasons).

Anyway, for me the issue is closed. Thanks for all the help!

[Laubender]

dmsduco  wrote

… The image has sRGB embedded. I'm not sure why the document color setting (Adobe RGB) wins it from the Preserve Embedded Profiles setting. …

I'm curious as well.

Hm. You say that the image has sRGB embedded.

Did you check with PhotoShop?

I think that there could be at least two cases with that. Pure speculation:

1. An image's metadata that hints to sRGB by reference of the name of the profile. The profile itself is not embedded.

2. The sRGB profile is indeed embedded.

Maybe the first case leads to an issue with IDML ?

What I do recommend:

An InDesign ExtendScript script by Roland Dreger that gives an overview of the color management situation in your document and can quickly change things if you know what you're doing. The discription below is in German, but English menus are available with system languages other than German: Farbmanagement in Adobe InDesign — Roland Dreger, Grafikdesign

Regards,
Uwe

[dmsduco]

Laubender  wrote

1. An image's metadata that hints to sRGB by reference of the name of the profile. The profile itself is not embedded.

I think you're right, it's probably the first case. It concerns images coming directly from a digital camera. Although that itself doesn't explain why the IDML round trip loses the setting. How to see if a profile is embedded or only referenced?

The color script shows the images with the color shift as 'Different Profile', which is correct.

[Laubender]

dmsduco  wrote

… It concerns images coming directly from a digital camera. Although that itself doesn't explain why the IDML round trip loses the setting. How to see if a profile is embedded or only referenced? …

Hm. Hard to tell because I do not have one of your sample images to test something.

Can you recreate the issue now that we might have identified a culprit?

Note: There is an option with PhotoShop that could be helpful to detect if the profile is only in EXIF metadata.

PhotoShop Preferences:

File Handling > [ ] Ignore EXIF Profile Tag

This option is turned off by default.

You could turn it on and open the image to see if there is any ICC profile saved with the image.

And not only a reference in the metadata.

Regards,
Uwe