InDesign crashes when updating InCopy ICML files

[sectiond007]

I created an assignment file with around 20 different stories. The next time I opened InDesign the writer had input text to most of the story files. One story file was a couple of pages of text, the rest were just a few lines of copy, nothing huge. Every time I tried to update the ICML files InDesign crashed. I didn't matter if I only tried updating one story or all of them, it always crashed. I was working on a PC when this happened. I moved over to my Mac to try and updated the ICML files and it crashed there too.

The actual InCopy ICML files on the server were fine. The writer never realized there was a problem. All of the copy was sitting there, so I was able to go back and re-import all the copy.

I did all the basic stuff to resolve the issue like restart, trash the prefs, convert to INX, and try on different computer. Nothing worked, crashed InDesign every time.

I'm currently using CS5, but this same issue came up last year on another project in CS4 as well.

Has anyone had this happen and/or know of a fix other than re-importing all the story files?

[BobLevine]

Are you running Suitcase Fusion 3?

Bob

[FabianaGO]

Hi, Bob!!!

When the problems started I was not with Suitcase installed ...

Last week I installed it - and the problems were not worst or better.

But think about it, all users have Suitcase Fusion installed on their Macs ...

some information about?

[John Hawkinson]

FabianaGO:

Problem: InDesign can't open *.IDAP (or *.icma) file: Indesign warns that the *.indd associated with *.idap is

damaged (asks if I want to open anyway) both selecting "open" or "cancel" the software close

unexpectedly.

When I opened the file Indesign insistently crashed permanently, only returning to load (even with no

file open) after quench in some cases preferences and reinstall InDesign.

If you have a crash, please upload the crash report to http://pastebin.com and post a link here.

[FabianaGO]

Oh my God!

I don't save Crash Report, but no problem: today the problem will persist...then send the error to you today!

The error occurred persistently in a file mathematics book (hundreds of eps linked, from the MathType). I have updated link by link - to find out what the link was freezing Indesign - when he crashed an updated ICML / frame that had multiple groupings (more complex object).

Well, we conclude: you should not place elements with multiple groupings because it crashes (??) assumed this policy.

But for my happiness, I find that the problem is not mathematics book: it is an intermittent error, and it always happens with books of mathematics, biology, history ....

[FabianaGO]

Did not have to wait even an hour of my day with InDesign / InCopy to happen the error (loss)

Here Chash Report: http://pastebin.com/v5bFFRHn

Procedures description:

InCopy Users (Windows or MacOS users) opens *.icma files - with Mac OS or PC - do checkout and edit icmls normally.

Problem: When InDesign open *.indd associate with *.icma and *.icml files: Indesign warns that the *.indd associated with is damaged (asks if I want to open anyway) both selecting "open" or "cancel" the software close

unexpectedly.

At other times he warns anything, only requires the update of icmls (the icon appears outdated on assignments panel), if you choose to update, it starts to update, and then closes Indesign.

Similar with problem described in: http://kb2.adobe.com/cps/847/cpsid_84791.html but our problem

occurs between Windows and Macs and between Macs.

[John Hawkinson]

Hmm.

Your crash appears to have something to do with computing the position of the handles on a text frame:

3   WidgetBinLib.dylib                 0x029c6754 CHandleShape::AddTextFrameHandleWidth(PMMatrix const&, PMRect*) const + 948

4   WidgetBinLib.dylib                 0x029c56f4 CHandleShape::GetPaintedHandleBounds(PMMatrix const&) + 116

5   WidgetBinLib.dylib                 0x029c50c1 CHandleShape::Inval(GraphicsData*, IDType<ClassID_tag>, long) + 49

Not that that helps much. I notice:

Interval Since Last Report:          248225 sec

Crashes Since Last Report:           67

Per-App Interval Since Last Report:  215201 sec

Per-App Crashes Since Last Report:   22

I am not sure, but does this indicate you have had 67 recent crashes, only 22 of which have been from InDesign? THat is, have other apps been crashing on your machine? If so, perhaps there is a problem unrelated to InDesign?

Do you have the same problem if you opened the associated INDD file from InDesign, not the IDAP or ICMA?

[FabianaGO]

I have this problem only INDD files associated with a *. Icma / *.Icap / *. IDAP, ie InCopy + Indesign = problems and Indesign alone = That's OK!

Would swear that all these errors were trying to do the work with InDesign and InCopy assignments ...

Support Adobe does not reply... #OMG

[ETC steph]

Some might call me crazy, but in order to progress with my project I ended up having to create my own work around this crashing bug.

The problem with my situation was that the reviewers had already made their comments in InCopy and it wasn't until I tried opening the .indd file and updating the stories that we received the crash... every time.

My workaround - if the reviewers had made their comments in InCopy, hopefully with track changes enabled, in order to see their comments I did the following:

I opened the .indd file in InDesign CS5.5 (version 7.5.2). DO NOT UPDATE the document with the ICML stories. Instead I unlinked the .icml stories from the main document. I then opened the .icml files in InCopy 5.5. I was able to see the edits that were made by my reviewers and copy and paste them between InCopy and InDesign at that point.

I know, I know. This is totally a crazy thing to need to do when we have such a powerful tool (InDesign and InCopy). It comes down to, you must do what you must do to get the job done. I truly had no other option presented at the time. The project had to complete and the reviewers were not HAPPY to even think about reviewing the content again via PDF shared review.

The best advice I received from other forum users when I proposed the crashing issue was that it could be because of anchored objects being deleted or moved by an InCopy editor. Because InCopy is strictly a text editing tool, there may be an issue that causes InDesign to get frustrated when an edit moves or deletes an anchored object or frame. I had lots of anchored object, interactive objects, etc. in my document. To track down whether an anchored object moved or was deleted by a user was unsurmountable... my workaround, while painful, at least got the job done this time.

Any future projects will be moved back to CS4. That version atleast works with InCopy stories and Interactivity. I am sure one day this will be resolved... just wonder when.

[Pickory]

I have InCopy and InDesign 5.5, for development purposes, so I don't actually use them.

If you can supply a document pair and instructions I could have a look at this.

P.

[Guest]

ETC Steph,  I've been working around this crash for awhile. You may be doing needless work in your workaround. Exporting the INDD file to IDML (Indesign mark up language), and opening that file, will fix the crash. You do not have to unlink the IC files, they will update without crashing when you open the IDML You ony have to do this once. Save the opened IDML file over your INDD file and that should permanently fix that document. The bug is in the Indesign file, not the InCopy stories.

I do believe the bug has something to do with anchored objects as that is a predominant part of the files that crash for me. However, I exported my template to IDML and resaved it for future layouts and that seems to have fixed all the new documents. Some corruption was introduced when I created the initial template, and it was being passed on to all documents based on that template. Once I fixed the template, the documents based on it ceased to crash on IC update. As long as your documents are not repaired, the bug will just keep compounding, especially if you make copies of those documents to create new ones. It's a time consuming fix, but not as time consuming as breaking the links and copying the stories back over.

One last note, you can flow the IC stories into new ID files without a crash--at least I could. That's how I figured out that it was the ID file that had the corruption and not the IC stories. So technically, you don't need to use InCopy. You could just open a blank doc in ID, flow in the IC stories and copy them into the old doc. That's what I was doing until I realized that the ID file just needed to be repaired. Now I do that whenever I have a doc that crashes on update.

[ETC steph]

I did try the InDesign Mark Up Language "cleaner" as part of my troubleshooting, and it didn't work for me. I love the idea of just flowing the InCopy text into a blank .indd document though. Something I didn't try. Where were you two weeks ago when I was pulling my hair out with these crashes. Thanks for the information "E Diane King".

[Guest]

Well, hopefully the blank doc works for you. It did for me, but then again, the IDML export works for me, too. You may have a different problem.

[FabianaGO]

Long life to EDiane King!!!

I will try everything that you proposed, but am still really angry with Adobe ...\

Miss CS4 ...

My problem is that am working with LiveEdit (InCopy and InDesign without CMS) and every four documents, three corrupt! shortly (few months) will be thousands of pages! Wanna see how to work with many files corrupted ...

E Diane, no any anchor frame is a good policy??

[Guest]

Are you working off templates, resaving documents to create new? Sometimes you can introduce a corruption while creating your initial template and then compound it as you base documents off the initial corrupted document. If you can keep your base templates as error-free as possible by rebuilding them through the IDML export once you have them set up, you can prevent compounding corruptions in multi-file workflows.

I know where you're coming from as I'm working on a three-year curriuculum with hundreds of documents and thousands of pages, multiple anchored objects in every document, and a style sheet that makes full use of the split/span column feature.  Unfortunately, using complex, long-document features in their first generation in InDesign can be risky. You have to learn to live with the bugs that have not been fully vetted before release of the feature.

In CS5 and 5.5, there are some great new features that I suspect were not fully beta-tested before the software was released. I'm sure Adobe tries to fully test the features, but they are only human and surely can't think of every possible way that their users are going to try to use the features they provide. As angry as I've been about the bug-filled release of ID CS5, I have to grudgling admit that the more complex the application becomes, the more likely it will be that we will run into these kind of bugs and corruptions with each new release. I have high hopes for CS6, but mostly because I hope that Adobe will have had the decency to work out the bugs in 5 and 5.5 before they add more cool features that don't play nicely with the features they have already released (that don't play nicely with previous features).  It's a compounding problem as long as users like us continuely expect innovation with each release.

[Pickory]

Hello,

I have a bit of theory about this. If you could let me have a file with the problem that can be reproduced, I can put my theory to test.

P.

[Guest]

All my culpits are repaired at the moment. Care to enlighten us as to your theory?

[Pickory]

Hello,

I wrote a plugin that required some special attributes to be saved when the user pressed command / Ctrl S. Well InCopy CS5.5 did not save the attributes. Anchored items may have such attributes.

We fixed it by intercepting the save command.

P.

[FabianaGO]

Pickory, Tell me about! Plugin??

Where? how much??

[Guest]

I'm now on CS6 and having the same exact problem. I'm now working on files that had no problems at all in CS5 but now that I'm in CS6, updating the stories causes a crash on every edit by an IC editor. I have to place the files in a new doc and copy and paste the text back into the layout. Exporting to IDML doesn't work this time. The IC update still crashes the docs opened from IDML--this fix worked for CS5.

This is becoming a serious bug and very irritating. I have to keep breaking the links to the stories so that I can copy the text from them and then re-export for the editor and then break and copy and re-export for every little edit. This is getting old really quick!

[allisonblake]

Like others in this thread, I have this problem of ID crashing when updating IC files that have anchored objects and long tables. I'm dismayed this hasn't been resolved in CS6. (I'm still using CS5, Mac OS 10.6)

While the assorted work-arounds work, it's a pain. I try to avoid using anchored objects, and that's a shame.

We have one project that is 150+ page booklet that is basically one long continuous table where we had to give the editors InDesign to make their changes as IC exports crashed repeatedly.

[SkywalkerOne]

I might as well throw my two-cents.  We are experiencing the same exact problem.  Unable to update stories fron inCopy as inDesign continues to crash.  We are expereincing this problem on CS5.5, CS6. Hopefully, that will get this issue fixed.

[DKingDesigner]

Well, I just did my first complicated layout in ID 6 and am also having the crash on update of InCopy story. Not only is it not fixed in CS6, it appears to be worse than it was in CS5. In CS5, I could export to IDML and that file, when opened, would allow an update. Now the only work around that works for me is to place the InCopy into a blank file, copy, open the original file without updating links, delete the InCopy stories from the assignments pallet, select the entire story and paste, re-export to InCopy. I'm really afraid that the next time the editor edits the story, I'm going to have to go through it all again. This is NOT good at all. Pretty much defeats the point of the InCopy workflow.  My stories contains in line and anchored images.

This is the E.Diane King posting under a new screen name

[Guest]

OK, folks. I'm not sure if anyone is monitoring this thread any more, but this issue just sky rocketed to the top of my frustrations. As I mentioned above, the InCopy story update bug is even worse in ID CS6 than in CS5. I've just spent the entire afternoon trying to troubleshoot just one file to try and figure out what it is causing the crash.  This crash happens with ID and IC if the story in question needs to be updated.

Here is what I've tried:

• I tried creating a fresh new template in ID CS6, importing only the text (with styles) and a few object styles. Crash.
• I tried placing the IC stories in a blank document and flowing them out to however many pages it takes to complete the story. The IC files place without crashing, but if they need updating, an update to the flowed story crashes ID.
• I tried creating an IC assignment for the editor to work from (he was opening the ID file). Crash
• I tried taking out all column breaking in the text styles. Crash
• The file contains anchored objects, so I tried doing a find for all custom anchored objects and changed them to in-line. Crash
• I deleted all split columns and span column styles or changed them to single column. Crash
• The story contains in-flow icons linked to an AI file. I embedded all the icons. Crash
• I deleted all the icons. Crash
• I also tried exporting the story as plain text and placing it back into the flow. Crash.

Work arounds I have tried:

• Saving to Indesign mark up language (IDML). This worked for this problem in CS5 (not only to get the IC file to update, but also the file never had the problem again). Updating still crashes in CS6.
• Deleting the link to the IC and then deleting the text in the flowed story frames and then placing the IC story with the cursor in the first text frame. Crash.
• Deleting the link to the IC story, then deleting the text in the flowed story frames. Placing the text without any frame selected and then clicking into the first story frame to flow the text. This does not crash ID, but it's an awkard work around. Often, the story doesn't flow completely through the linked frames, and I have to manually link the frames again. It also doesn't always work for all the stories involved.
• The only work around that always works is placing the culprit IC file into a new blank document, select all the text and copy. Return to the original file, delete the IC link and select all the text and paste. Re-export the IC file.  This is a very cumbersome work around and pretty much defeats the purpose of an IC workflow.

I'm working on a fully-updated InDesign CS6 on a fully-update Mac tower running Mountain Lion. My editior is working on a fully-updated InCopy CS6 on a fully-updated Windows 7 laptop. The files we are working on will amount to hundreds of files with multiple edits per file (two IC stories per file). They are stored on a server.

I seriously need help with this or I'm going to end up having to move both msyelf and my editor back to CS5 to finish this three year project (and I like CS6).  It's either that or get my editor InDesign and abandon the IC workflow entirely.

I know Adobe is going to pretty much ignore me since I've already tried all the normal fixes, and this bug is not widely distributed among the user base so it probably doesn't warrant their attention. I'm pretty sure that it IS a bug since it existed in CS5 as well.  However, I'm not at the point where I can show the step by step progression that creates the behavior.

Anyone have any ideas what else I can try in my troubleshooting to track down the problem?

[John Hawkinson]

Diane:

OK, folks. I'm not sure if anyone is monitoring this thread any more, but this issue just sky rocketed to the top of my frustrations. As I mentioned above, the InCopy story update bug is even worse in ID CS6 than in CS5.

I will say, I have been reading this thread, with trepidation and fear, and I'm worried. Our production environment of InCopy/InDesign remains on CS5 and we really do need to transition that sooner-or-later, and this is therefore pretty scary.

With respect to your actual crashes, though, can you post them to http://pastebin.com/ for analysis? Have you passed any of them on to Adobe support?

I suspect moving back to CS5 is the way to go in the short term. And I hate to ask it, but have you tried CS5.5?

[Guest]

John,

I will reassure you that the IC/ID workflow usually works. I've worked all summer on a different project in CS6 with two separate editors working through IC assignments on files stored in a common Dropbox with very few problems. The reason I'm so frustrated in the case I mentioned above is that I know there is something about these particular files that is creating the crash and I can't figure out what it is--which means I can't report it as a bug to Adobe. I believe it may have something to do with anchored objects in coordination with spanning/split columns. If you don't regularly use the spanning/split columns or don't use them with other slightly less than stable ID features such as anchored objects or tables, you may be perfectly fine using an IC workflow in CS6.

As to CS 5.5, I did use it but not with IC, so I can't speak to that workflow.