PDF file too large...X Object Forms?

[evac15315126]

My InDesign file is 5mb.  When I export it to a PDF, it becomes 80mb.  Compressing the file didn't work because it is too large.  I don't think it is the images in the document--when I used the Optimized PDF function with Adobe, much of the issue was "x object forms" (taking up 90% of the file size).  Any thoughts?

[Lori27610108a643]

Hi, 

Thanks so much for your reply. When I say mitigate - I mean finding other ways to add the elements I want to have before I even export to PDF. I have been reading that the xobjects, and resulting large PDF file size, are a result of the vector line art I have placed in the InDesign file. I have tried exporting them as PNGs (and even tried PSD as a test) from Illustrator, which even at 300dpi, don't look anywhere near as good as vector placed. However, I THINK it's InDesign not displaying properly because they look much better in photoshop than they do in InDesign. I have "high quality display" checked. The PDF size is about 35mb at medium quality/150 dpi jpg. And 68% of the file size is coming from xobjects. I have not taken the chunk of time it would take to replace all the instances with PNGs, as of yet. My job is designing pitches all day every day so this definitely isn't new to me, and the only time this has been an issue is when vector is placed/PDF converts (or whatever the proper term is) to xobjects. So I know the file will be smaller with PNGs, but at the moment that is not a nice looking situation. 

[Robert at ID-Tasker]

@Lori27610108a643

Can you share some sample files - please click my nickname if you prefer to send privately. 

[leo.r]

I have been reading that the xobjects, and resulting large PDF file size, are a result of the vector line art I have placed in the InDesign file.

an issue is when vector is placed/PDF converts (or whatever the proper term is) to xobjects. So I know the file will be smaller with PNGs

By @Lori27610108a643

First, once again, you can safely forget the word "xobject". It has nothing to do with the issue you're trying to solve.

Yes, under certain conditions, using vector art in InDesign can result in bigger PDF sizes compared to using images (like I mentioned earlier). This, however, has nothing to do with "xobjects". XObjects are created whenever they have to be created and they have nothing to do with anything, as far as the issue you're facing is concerned.

The contents of your InDesign file can, potentially, affect the final PDF size (regardless of the number of XObjects that will be created as a result of this). Like I mentioned, try to replace .ai with PDF as a test. Just try it first on a sample file with just a few links and compare PDF sizes.

[Lori27610108a643]

All due respect, but it is extremely clear that the % of "usage" by xobjects in the PDF is directly related to the amount of vector art in the file. I've tested that. I removed only a few of the vectors and the percentage went down from 68% to 42%. Only problem is that I replaced them with PNGs and now the images are making the PDF size even bigger. Placing PDFs did not change anything. Vectors are inherently smaller file sizes than high res raster, so it's infuriating that when converting to PDF the vectors DO cause xobjects that inflate the size (you can see it clearly in the "audit space usage" window). That is a fact. Anyway, doesn't sound like there's a good fix either way. Sigh.

[leo.r]

All due respect, but it is extremely clear that the % of "usage" by xobjects in the PDF is directly related to the amount of vector art in the file. I've tested that. I removed only a few of the vectors and the percentage went down from 68% to 42%. Only problem is that I replaced them with PNGs and now the images are making the PDF size even bigger. Placing PDFs did not change anything. Vectors are inherently smaller file sizes than high res raster, so it's infuriating that when converting to PDF the vectors DO cause xobjects that inflate the size (you can see it clearly in the "audit space usage" window). 

By @Lori27610108a643

I understand that it's tempting to think that some mysterious "xobjects" are responsible for your troubles, however it's not the case. XObject is, to put it in simple terms, just a name of a label for a storage container.  Whether your vector or raster elements are seemingly labeled as "xobjects" or as anything else in the PDF structure, they'll take exactly the same space.

Also, from your earlier messages I was under the impression that replacing your vector art with images reduces the PDF size, but it appears that it's actually the other way around? 

But regardless, without seeing your files it's impossible to give any other specific recommendations at this point. Native vector files indeed can have smaller file sizes. But when PDF is created, vector art should be described and encoded in a certain way, which can result in bigger file sizes.

One other thing you can try is to simplify your paths in Illustrator:

https://helpx.adobe.com/illustrator/using/simplify_paths.html

[Robert at ID-Tasker]

@Lori27610108a643

There is one more thing that - based on what @leo.r just said - is worth mentioning and asking - what is the source of your PDFs?

Are those "just" PDFs - or generated in Illustrator - with fully embedded all information for editing? 

[Lori27610108a643]

InDesign

[MADink_Designs27]

I didn't happen to see one word of advice mentioned. InDesign is notorious for document bloat. Before exporting, I always do a File > Save As. I've seen files drop 20-30MB just by doing this one thing. I don't know how much it affects the PDF size, but I recall it does affect it. At the very least, it's saving a lot of space on your storage location.

[pravinwagh]

I just encountered this issue for myself last night and found this page as the only search result that had all the important search terms. Here's what worked for me in a situation where my PDF went from about 11 MB to 25.

The main difference I could recall is that I updated a vector file of a Japanese landscape with one of cherry blossoms. The nearly doubling in size was caused by the new .AI file having overly detailed flower artwork, whereas the previous one had simpler shapes.

I exported the .AI file to a JPG and linked to that JPG instead. The PDF became so much smaller, that I was able to go into the compression settings and upgrade the JPG quality for the entire publication and it only grew by a few more megabytes.

Before this step, I visited the larger linked PSDs and exported some of them to JPG but it had zero impact. The bitmap data in them was already rasterized by the time it went to PDF. Vector data carries all the way over into the PDF and the only way to optimize it is to check your .AI and .EPS file sizes to see if they are unusually large compared to what you're seeing rendered. If they are big, then it means there's a lot of vector data that will carry over. Unlike with bitmaps, there is no simple formula for how to reduce the vector complexity and still maintain the wonderful image.

[Robert at ID-Tasker]

Converting vector file into a bitmap isn't a very good idea...

Looks like you've a lot to learn... 

[pravinwagh]

I would be very happy to learn a lot!

Please teach me and all of us.

[Robert at ID-Tasker]

Others know that already so it would be just for you - 

vector graphic offer scalability - bitmaps don't.

It's not InDesign's fault that your vector file have to many objects.

Sometimes, vector will be much smaller than a bitmap - for example a national flag... 

So don't be a smart ... 

[pravinwagh]

I read your other answer and perhaps there's something for you to consider as well...

In this particular instance, my task was to create a small-sized PDF.

The vector original file is still around and if there's a need to make an A1 or A0 size poster, the scalability is still available to me by linking back to the .AI file.

[Robert at ID-Tasker]

You've never stated that it was the main goal / priority over quality.

If your document is destined for phones / e-books - then yes, low res JPG is fine - but you've not stated this...

By default PDF is for printing...