Placed .svg file doesn't print from exported PDF when output from Bluebeam Revu

[Andrew_Inner_North]

I thought that I had reached the Nirvana of having a vector logo set that I could use in InDesign and Word/PowerPoint alike, but alas.

I did a very simple layout in InDesign which had a shape with some text and our company logo on it (which was an SVG file). It exports fine to PDF. It looks fine in Acrobat. It prints fine from Acrobat. It looks fine in Bluebeam Revu. But when printed from Bluebeam Revu, the logo goes missing. I swapped the logo out to an .ai version and exported again, and then it printed fine from Bluebeam.

Now you may say "Well print from Acrobat, silly!" however I'd say the bulk of our engineers have Bluebeam as their default PDF viewer and this should not be happening! 

[Eugene Tyson]

SVG is RGB only it doens't allow any CMYK tagging. 

Any 100% Black that you assign is converted to RGB black - that is 4 colour black. 

There's no reason for it to go missing unless that Bluebeam does not support RGB or something.

[Andrew_Inner_North]

You're right, no reason for it to go missing! Nearly everything I do is destined to be printed on an office printer, exported to a png to be put into Word or PowerPoint or submitted as a PDF for on-screen viewing or for someone to output on an office printer at the other end, so the lack of CMYK isn't much of an issue for me, and RBG format everything has become the norm for my workflows.

I've had things in the past like whites being set to overprint, but that shows up when you look at overprint preview in Acrobat. This looks fine.

[Eugene Tyson]

Can you share the SVG with us? 

[BobLevine]

Well, I will only point out that when you export a PDF from InDesign, you are creating an Adobe PDF. Beyond Acrobat or Reader you are, unfortunately, in unsupported territory. Third-party PDF readers are notoriously bad.

This sounds like a Bluebeam issue but it most certainly is NOT an InDesign issue.

[James Gifford—NitroPress]

This. I often work in engineering environments, and while BlueBeam is beloved in the Revit, ACAD and SolidWorks crowd, it's a lot better at handling large export docs than, well, most page docs.

Cross that with the many ragged edges of SVG, and, well...

[Andrew_Inner_North]

Yes, further thinking through of the problem (and similar Bluebeam issues I found) has led me to that conclusion. Acrobat is a terrible bit of software from an interface and speed perspective but you can't deny it's the "definitive" product.

[James Gifford—NitroPress]

Well, you know, if anyone could improve speed and the UI without breaking the (straightforward, fully documented) rendering, it'd be nice. But most alternatives seem to trade a Chevy truck for a hot-rodded Yugo. 🙂

[Brad @ Roaring Mouse · Accepted solution]

It's important to remember, any .svg vector objects are converted to Postscript/PDF objects on export to PDF; it is no longer in any way shape or form an .svg in the PDF. Even if you were to upload a "bad" PDF for us to look at, we probably won't find anything, but the fact it appears properly and prints from everything you've tried except for Revu points to an issue there. Based on a quick search, I found many reports of printing problems with PDF content from Revu, so my guess you need to send them sample files to analyze.

That being said, I'd still love to poke at one of your "bad" PDFs.

[Andrew_Inner_North]

I'm overly cautious so here's a doctored version of the logo, but I've confirmed with a Bluebeam user that a PDF generated from InDesign using this prints out blank. I placed this, the unmodified SVG and an AI version and only the AI showed up on the printout. I'm going to see if I can raise a support ticket with Bluebeam as it does appear to be a "them" problem.

[James Gifford—NitroPress]

I wouldn't hold your breath. Just as most of the general third-party PDF readers focus on "speed, speed, free/cheap, speed and bygodnotAdobe," BB seems to focus on managing very large pages, both in file size and dimension, and has so many rendering problems with more ordinary — albeit more "complex" — PDFs that I think they will continue to focus on their market at the expense of general users.

Power to 'em and all. I just get irritated when users of a substandard reader blame the format or Adobe for their problems. 🙂

[James Gifford—NitroPress]

You might export the SVG to (gasp) PDF using Illustrator, and provide that as the logo to be placed in user docs. It will almost certainly work in any reader or export.

SVG is... just a half-finished, poorly supported format.

[Eugene Tyson]

Thought of that too but then it's not ready for a website.

But it might be better option.

[James Gifford—NitroPress]

Doesn't pretty much anything exported to the right PDF standard give the same viewing compatibility?

[Brad @ Roaring Mouse]

I've examined your svg and found nothing amiss with it at all. I created PDFs using both that and an .AI version, and the PDFs contain identical code for the logos shapes, except for the number accuracy; the code for the svg is accurate to 1 decimal place whereas the Illustrator .AI file is accurate to 3 decimal places... certainy not a deal breaker.

But there is ONE difference that seems to be affecting Bluebeam: the svg is being written into PDF inside a container object called a Form XObject, where other formats (I tested .ai. emf. wmf, etc) are not. Why InDesign needs to do this specifically with svg is unclear, but it seems BlueBeam is not processing objects within these Form XObjects when printing but handle them otherwise okay for display. When you chat with Bluebeam, mention this.

[Andrew_Inner_North]

Wow, thank you so much! That’s a much deeper analysis than I’m capable of! I do have a support ticket open with them so I’ll pass that along.

[Brad @ Roaring Mouse]

I think the takeway here is that svg is still a pretty crude format choice for high-quality print; good for the web and Office app use, but if you're going for print, you shouldn't rely on it. Go for .pdf, or .ai.

Once .svg gets better (which is in progress constantly), maybe, but not now.

[James Gifford—NitroPress]

Once .svg gets better (which is in progress constantly), maybe...

At which point it will be obsolete and deprecated, like .eps and .cdr and more TLEs than you can shake a thumb stick at. 🙂

I'll bet against that anyway. SVG is one of those half-vast formats created to feed a low-end quickie need that has tried to catch up in features, standardization and usefulness ever since. It's from the world of Canva and web banners and website 'builders.' Hopelessly amateur in concept and not really of interest to anyone not working on the next "simple visual drag and drop creator of pro-fessional online marketing materials."

[BobLevine]

It's a great format for the web. Keeps logos looking very sharp and use it exclusively for that.

Why anyone would use it for print is a bit of a mystery.

[James Gifford—NitroPress]

I'll agree in that the web could use a reliable vector format. But I'll stay curmudgeonly on this in that SVG seems to be a format that was ill-thought and is not really progressing towards a solid standard; it's been a continual battle between "make it work as right as PNG" and "but what do Canva users want?" I could also put a toe on the somewhat old-school notion that as the web is a completely raster medium, it's on designers to optimize graphics for each use and not use a generic one-size-is-supposed-to-fit-all format that, well, doesn't always.

I've just come to really dislike the format, from too much hands-on experience and one headache after another. The world's full of things that "work where they work" — I'll stay with options that just plain work.

[Brad @ Roaring Mouse]

To be clear, I'm definitely not a fan of it either. I've seen too many cases of a supplied logo in SVG saved with such an appropriate flatness setting and decimal accuracy that curves on small objects type become unintelligible.

[BobLevine]

The thing is (and again, I only use them for logos for websites) when they work, they're beautiful. Logos are crisp at any magnification so I only need one file for every device and even with a large zoom factor they stay sharp.

Every now and again though, I get an Illustrator file that just won't export properly. So, yeah...it still needs work but I'm not all that sure if it's an SVG issue or an Illustrator issue exporting them.

[Andrew_Inner_North]

I heard back from Bluebeam on this, when I said that /svg logos were showing fine on screen but not printing. They said svg files are not supported and that I could submit a feature request. When I said it sounded more like a bug to me, I got this:

Unfortunately as they're considered out of scope for Revu it's not considered a bug. 
It's recommended to use an image type such as JPG, BMP, TIFF, etc.
If SVG files are commonly used, I suggest submitting your feedback at the site previously linked.

[James Gifford—NitroPress]

Which makes perfect sense. The software is engineering oriented and has little need to support web-specific file formats.

I won't say I am pleased, exactly, but it's kinda sorta confirmation that SVG has a long way to go in growing up, and may never make it there.

[BobLevine]

In addition to James' comments, it is important to remember that just because you don't like the way something works doesn't mean it's a bug. You've gotten confirmation on what I thought from the beginning. This is on Bluebeam.

From the sound of it, you'd be better off if it was a bug. At least there were would be a chance for something getting fixed in the near term.