Prematurely-Forced Word Breaks (balance ragged lines IS disabled!)

[DavidSLynch]

I am unable to keep a 3-letter word from flowing to the next line down - even though there is plenty of room for it on the line above. (see image) I've checked paragraph settings and can find nothing that would force the line to break this way. I looked at the Balance Ragged Lines option and it is unchecked in both places I found the option. Help!

[DavidSLynch]

Additional info:  This is a line that has a hanging indent created with two tabs - one decimal tab and one flush-left tab. When I replace the tabs with spaces, the word flows back to the line above where it should be. But I don't want to create my indents with spaces! - that's an amateur move, and prone to misalignment.

[Peter Spier]

Perhaps I misunderstand, but hanging indents shouldn't be created with tabs. You  should set a general left indent value for the paragraph style and an offsetting negaive value for the first line indent. But looking at your screen grab you don't have a hanging indent, so I'm confused.

I'm guessing you don't have the paragraaph style set up as a numbered list, either, which makes sense if you want to use numbers with a decimal point and align on that point. I don't in theory see a problem in theory using a decimal aligned tab followed by a left aligned tab to manually type your list numbers to get the alignment, and perhaps that's what you meant.

Can you clarify? And please tell us your OS and version of ID.

[DavidSLynch]

Peter, Thanks for your willingness to help troubleshoot this.

I'm not working with running copy (see image). This is a CD tracklisting for a music album that includes credits for each track. I am using a decimal tab so that the numbers are flush right of the period, then a left tab so the song title begins a short distance after the period. Subsequent lines are indented the same amount as the left tab (in this case, 0.19").

I don't believe I can use hanging indents to set this up since there are two tab values. I don't think I can't use a numbered list as there are many lines of text between each song title, and only the title lines have numbers and use this tab setting.

System: InDesign 16.2.1 - iMac Retina 5K, 27-inch, 2017 running OS 10.14.6

[Peter Spier]

Another thing to try is swithing from the Adobe paragraph composer to the Adobe single line composer.

[DavidSLynch]

I tried that. Darn it - didn't work. Thanks for your suggestion.

[Barb Binder]

Hi @DavidSLynch 

Is this what you are looking for? This is done as a numbered list and has the number aligning on the decimal and the hanging indent. To accomplish this I defined a named list, set the number alignment to Right (to align on the decimal) and fiddled with the indent and tab positions. I work in picas and points, but you can use whatever unit of measure you are most comfortable with. 

~Barb 

[Peter Spier]

Thanks for stepping in Barb.

I'm perturbed that you are able to get the numbers to properly align on the decimal and I was not, but looking at your screen grab I think it's because you used a lower negative value on the first line indent than applied to the paragraph as a whole.

Yep, seems to be the key.

This does not, however clarify why the last word is dropping to the next line...

[DavidSLynch]

Barb,

I've never built publishing credits using paragraph styles. I've been in the habit of using tabs. Perhaps it's not as elegant as using paragraph styles, but I haven't experienced a problem until now. 

Here's a screenshot with hidden items displayed. As you can see, tracks 11 and 13 are both having the same issue. 

If you want to inspect the file: https://www.dropbox.com/s/9jbtf4uirrw8buv/Booklet%20Text.indd?dl=0
fonts are Blair ITC and Chaparral Pro.

[Barb Binder]

Hey Peter! First of all, welcome back! Whenever I see your avatar I assume it's an old thread. I'm slowly adapting! 😊

Yes, with the right alignment I had couldn't use the traditional hanging indent formula. But it's working for both single and double digits. 

No we don't know about that one word. I'd like to see the file or at least a screen shot with hidden characters visible. And the style definition to see if there is a GREP style assigning a no break. 

~Barb

[Peter Spier]

I don't know that I have the correct verion of the Blair font, but I can reproduce the problem, both in David's file converted to version 15 and a brand new file in CS6 with freshly typed text using the same formatting (and I sent the file through IDML as well). It happens with Helvetica Neue Pro Heavy Extended as well -- I wanted to try a font I trust -- and seems to happen only in combination with the two tabs.

I think David has uncovered a bug.

[Barb Binder]

Hi @DavidSLynch:

On Track 11, did you try just clicking in front of the Y in You and pressing Backspace and then Spacebar (Delete, Spacebar on a Mac)? That works for me. 

When you look at your screenshot you can see that you have a variety of ways of starting a new line. Sometimes you press the Enter key, sometimes you add a line break which is Shift+Enter.

If you can set all this up using a paragraph style it will be much easier to work with and you can make a quick change that will impact all of the song titles all at once.

~Barb

[DavidSLynch]

I have a new Logitech ergo keyboard that has both a delete and a backspace key. Do they function differently?

I tried backspace - space, but it didn't change anything. It looks like this old dog is going to have to learn a new trick and rebuild this using a paragraph setting.

Thanks again for your help.

[DavidSLynch]

I'm still having trouble. I have switched to paragraph formatting, which solved my original problem. However, even though I have alignment set for "left," The decimal points are not lining up. What am I doing wrong?

[rob day]

Try a smaller First Line Indent:

[rob day]

The problem seems to be with the Align to Decimal tab usage. If I replace it with a Right Justified tab it works:

Not sure if this would be a bug—the intended usage for an Align to Decimal tab would be in something like a financial table where you want a column of numbers to align on the decimal.

The indents and spacing can be done more consistently with no tabs or empty returns:

[Peter Spier]

Rob, the only problem with your suggested settings is the numbers don't align to the right...

Changing the decimal -aligned tab to right aligned seems to work here using the non-list method (which I don't think is optimal for this). Your comment about the usage for the decimal aligned tab got me thinking and adding a non-joiner special character before the second tab also seems to fix the issue.

There is a lot of inconsistency in the way the type is currently set that would be easily eliminated with the proper use of styles, including numbered lists (and a character style applied to the numbers to format them all the same and eliminate the need for overrides or a nested style) and space before/after.

I was able to get the desired alignment with a paragraph style set up as a numbered list, basic character format set to the Blair specs, assign a character style to the number to change it to the smaller Chapparal, and set the number alignment to right, left indent to .1875, first line indent to -.01 and tab to .1875

[rob day]

I was able to get the desired alignment with a paragraph style set up as a numbered list, basic character format set to the Blair specs, assign a character style to the number to change it to the smaller Chapparal, and set the number alignment to right, left indent to .1875, first line indent to -.01 and tab to .1875

Yes I think we cross posted—that’s what I’m showing in my last (nested) post above.

It can also be done manually with an Indent to Here character—tab>number>tab>Indent to Here. I use this when I want a header right justified to a left justified block of text.