question about sub-columns

Participant ,
Mar 28, 2022 Mar 28, 2022

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Hello,

About this sub-column here, I would like to insert a vertical line between the two sub-columns. How to do this ?

 

sub-column.jpg

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Community Expert ,
Mar 28, 2022 Mar 28, 2022

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You can use a paragraph border, as shown on my screenshot but to get this result you must have a paragraph return where you have drawn the red arrow.

Capture d’écran 2022-03-28 à 14.44.32.jpg

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Community Expert ,
Mar 28, 2022 Mar 28, 2022

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Hi Pierre,

jmlevy's solution is superior to mine.

Stick with it.

 

EDIT:
Well, we have to discuss its flexibility:

You have to apply the rule only to the left part of the split texts.

 

If that's not possible because a paragraph jumps from split column 1 to split column 2 my solution below could be the way to go forward. But it also has a flaw. The numbers you put in to control the shading as rule always depend on the width of the split column.

 

Regards,
Uwe Laubender

( ACP )

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Community Expert ,
Mar 28, 2022 Mar 28, 2022

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Wasn't that discussed before in the forum?

My answer was to use paragraph shading for all paragraphs in the split column paragraphs where the visibility of the shading that imitates a rule is restricted to the text frame or column. I would love to do this with paragraph rules, but there is no option to restrict it to the column or text frame.

 

SplitToColumn-ParaShading-Printing.PNG

 

Download my sample document from my Dropbox account:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/vifewaqqj22vbfh/SplitColumn-VerticalRule-ParagraphShading-SAMPLE-2022.indd...

 

Regards,
Uwe Laubender

( ACP )

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Community Expert ,
Mar 28, 2022 Mar 28, 2022

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That's very clever, Uwe! Of course, your solution is the best!

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Community Expert ,
Mar 28, 2022 Mar 28, 2022

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Here I disagree.

At least a bit. There is no optimal solution.

Both of our solutions, using paragraph rules vs paragraph shading do have some issues with flexibility.

 

Regards,
Uwe Laubender

( ACP )

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Community Expert ,
Mar 28, 2022 Mar 28, 2022

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My solution, using pagraph borders does not allow to use paragraph styles, instead of yours. So, yours is better IMHO.

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Participant ,
Mar 28, 2022 Mar 28, 2022

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I have first shown hidden characters, and at the bottom of the left sub-column I have seen I had not the "blue return symbol", so I pressed on return key. And I have clicked on the left sub-column text and set the right border on 1pt, and also used a text offset of -1mm.

 

border.jpg

I have noticed that if there is no blue return symbol at the bottom left sub-column, I obtain 2 right borders instead of one at the center :

without blue return.jpg

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Community Expert ,
Mar 28, 2022 Mar 28, 2022

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Yes. That's the issue with paragraph rules.

See into my InDesign document that you can download from my Dropbox account where I used paragraph shading.

 

Regards,
Uwe Laubender

( ACP )

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Community Expert ,
Mar 28, 2022 Mar 28, 2022

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Yes, because – as the name says – theses are “bordures de paragraphe” (paragraph border) so it applies to the whole paragraph. That's why I wrote in my first answer: “you must have a paragraph return where you have drawn the red arrow” and that's also why Uwe's solution is better, since the “arrière-plan de paragraphe” (paragraph shading) feature allows to mask what is outside the frame at the contrary of the paragraph border.

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Participant ,
Mar 28, 2022 Mar 28, 2022

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Here are my settings in the shading panel :

 

shading.jpg

If I decide to choose another vertical line (by example a dotted vertical line), how to do this in the shading panel ?

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Community Expert ,
Mar 28, 2022 Mar 28, 2022

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You can't. Use a paragraph border in this case. The Uwe's solution (using paragraph shading instead of paragraph border) is a trick to avoid to get rules on the side of each column.

 

You can also choose a differenbt solution: you can anchor a vertical rule where you want. But in this case, this rule will not automatically adjust its length if the text is modified.

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Community Expert ,
Mar 28, 2022 Mar 28, 2022

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Hm. I still think about a solution with a paragraph border.

Why don't we try this together with a column rule that obscures the border?

 

Text frame options column rule is set to 0 Pt [Paper]:

SplitColumn-ParagraphBorder-Dotted-ColumnRule-0Pt.PNG

 

Text frame options column rule is set to 7 Pt [Paper]. Now the column rule of the text frame will obscure the paragraph border we do not want:

 

SplitColumn-ParagraphBorder-Dotted-ColumnRule-7Pt.PNG

 

 

Yes, that will work as long as the text frame's background is the color of the text frame's column rule.

So, jmlevy's solution will win!

 

Download the document from my Dropbox account:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/tdy6vptgrjqu3bw/SplitColumn-ParagraphBorder-Dotted-ColumnRule-SAMPLE-2022....

 

Regards,
Uwe Laubender

( ACP )

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Participant ,
Mar 29, 2022 Mar 29, 2022

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I would like to create a border surrounding the two sub-columns, like this (in red). How to do this ?

 

border sub-column.jpg

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Community Expert ,
Mar 29, 2022 Mar 29, 2022

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If you have a paragraph break at the end, as on your exemple, use paragraph borders with a border on the top, the bottom and the left side for the paragraph of the left column and a border on the top, the bottom and the right side for the paragraph of the right column.

Capture d’écran 2022-03-29 à 16.39.12.jpgCapture d’écran 2022-03-29 à 16.39.23.jpg

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Participant ,
Mar 29, 2022 Mar 29, 2022

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Here is my settings for the left sub-column :

 

left.jpg

And here is the setting of the right sub-column and the final result.

I don't understand why the bottom border of the right sub-column is not at the same level as the bottom border of the left sub-column.

 

right.jpg

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Community Expert ,
Mar 29, 2022 Mar 29, 2022

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Look at your screenshots, “décalage du bas”: one has 2 mm and the other 7 mm

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Participant ,
Mar 29, 2022 Mar 29, 2022

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If I put 2mm on all side, I have a more important level difference at the bottom :

 

border.jpg

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Community Expert ,
Mar 29, 2022 Mar 29, 2022

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Yes, of course: I didn't notice that the 2 subcolumns had different heights! So, you have to make a fine tuning to find the right offset to get the same alignment.

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Community Expert ,
Mar 29, 2022 Mar 29, 2022

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Actually, there is an easy way to adjust the bottom alignment, since InDesign knows maths:

  • Start to adjust the bottom offset of the longest paragraph
  • For the shortest paragraph, you just use the same offset PLUS the amount of the paragraph leading. If the longest paragraph has 2 lines more than the shortest, multiply the leading by 2.  

 

In my screnshot, the bottom offset is 6, 939 mm. I just typed 2 mm + 15 pt (the leading value) and InDesign converted this in mm.

Capture d’écran 2022-03-29 à 18.33.18.jpg

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Participant ,
Mar 29, 2022 Mar 29, 2022

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Offset bottom 7mm :

 

7mm.jpg

 

Offset bottom 8mm :

 

8mm.jpg

Whatever I choose (7mm or 8mm), I have all the time this level difference at the bottom. 

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Community Expert ,
Mar 29, 2022 Mar 29, 2022

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You didn't read my previous answer…

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Participant ,
Mar 29, 2022 Mar 29, 2022

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Ok, now I have read your previous message, and here are my settings.

Left :

left.jpg

And right : 

 

right.jpg

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Community Expert ,
Mar 29, 2022 Mar 29, 2022

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Why did you choose an offset of 6,939 mm? Is it the sum of the left paragraph offset (1,3 mm) plus the leading? If I do maths, 6,939 mm - 1,3 mm equals to 5,639 mm. That should be the leading. If I convert 5,639 mm in points, I find 15,985 pt. Is that your leading?

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Participant ,
Apr 01, 2022 Apr 01, 2022

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Hello,

 

Between the sub columns here, I would like a non printable vertical guide (made of 2 vertical lines) : 

 

sub column.jpg

 

A non printable vertical guide between sub colomn, like this : 

 

non printable.jpg

 

How to do this between the sub-columns ?

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