Unexpected spacing below text frame

[Chris P. Bacon]

The bottom of my last baseline of my text downwards (align to baselign grid is enabled) should be exactly on the top of the top offset of my all caps text box below, yet there is a one and half baseline extra space in there that seems to be set for the bottom of my copy text (small caps text). 

Does anyone knoe hot to disable that?

Otherwise the top offset of my all caps textbox will seem much taller than what I have defined. 

[James Gifford—NitroPress · Accepted solution]

I'm not sure I'm following, but if you turn off document grid and turn on document baseline (visibility), it would be easier to see what's going on. (Just to be crystal clear, doc grid and baseline grid are not the same thing and don't necessarily affect each other.)

I suspect your upper text frame is not an exact multiple of the baseline, and/or has local frame override settings.

Seeing the baseline lines would help resolve both, and if you Ctrl-B the text frame you can make sure it's not using a custom baseline setting.

—

[Chris P. Bacon]

Hi James,

I don't use (I never make it visible, I mean) the baseline grid, because I have set my documnt grid cell height to my baseline grid, so every second line is my baseline grid. So I just talk in terms of document grid, to simplify things.

I have set all my objects to document grid increments - and the issue still persists. (See my new comment in the thread).

I don't use any custom baseline settings. (Thanks for the shortcut!)

[Bill Silbert]

What happens if you apply a Vertical Justification of "Justify" to the text in the top frame and make sure that the bottom of the frame is exactly at the point where you want the type to sit?

[Chris P. Bacon]

The reult of Justify is the same as the Top aligned - it will be aligned to the top of the frame.

I described what happens in my latest comment in this thread.

[Eugene Tyson]

I can see in your screenshot the text frame has a Text Wrap on it.

Select the text frame containing Lorem Ipsum and check your text wrap settings

https://helpx.adobe.com/ie/indesign/using/text-wrap.html#:~:text=Options%20dialog%20box.-,To%20displ....

[Chris P. Bacon]

My text wrap is correct. I added new comment.

[Chris P. Bacon]

In the meanwhile I realized that all objects need to be sized to exact document grid increments (i don't use baseline grid because I made its height equal to my document grid cell height, so every second line of my document grid is my baseline grid - so no need to use my baseline grid), so I corrected to image height to fit the document grid - now everything is sized to exact document grid increments but the problem still persists.

Here is the correct fitting:

 And this is the wrong fitting:

The screenshot above was made with my copy text (small text) set to vertical align: bottom, so it creates an empty line at the top:

If I set it to justify, it will be the same as top aligned: if I set it to top, it will be two empty bottom lines at the bottom, and if I set it to center, it will be the same as bottom aligned.

But, my copy text must be top aligned anyway, in order to keep the top of my columns flush, and also to keep the original spacing that I intended to be between the top of my copy text and the title element above it.

So after setting it to top, I have two empty extra lines at the bottom:

and further clicks on "Fill with placeholder text" doesn't help, it won't fill in the empty lines.

When it's bottom aligned it's only one free line left under the text and I understand why isn't that filled with text, it's because my copy text is set to baseline grid, so only every second row can be filled with text.

In this case the issue is that the number of lines for my 2 short columns should be an even number, and for that to work across my document it requires that everything in my design, all objects to be sized to even lines, including  the whole area between my page margins - is that right? So if that's the issue, then I will have to adjust my object sizes to be all of them even number of lines both vertically and horizontally, including the whole area between my margins in both directions, or all objects and the between-margins area to be odd number of lines. Please correct me if I am wrong with my math here...since I am not very good at math.

But if I set the  vertical alignment of my copy text to top alignes, then as you can see I do have two empty lines left for my copy text at the bottom, so the second of those 2 should be filled with copy text, and it won't get filled even if I repeatedly click on "Fill with placeholder text". And, I have overset text anyway on that text frame, so the text should be there.

So this means that even if I make all my objects including the area between my margins odd number of lines wide and tall,  there will still be unexpected empty space there?

And if its column rule extends all the way down, why the text isn't?

Any further ideas much appreciated.

Here is a link to a copy of that page of my document in INDD format, it's the left page of my parent (or master) spread.

https://bit.ly/3w3dEZ3

Thanks everyone in advance. 

[Chris P. Bacon]

I want to add what did I learn from this:

1. use of baseline grid is obsolete if you set the cell height of your document grid to the baseline grid's height - I think that's a good idea, that's what I did

2. all objects sizes must be set to exact document grid increements both horizontally and vertically, if you want to avoid uneven spacing issues like I encountered with this document

3. you must either create all your objects including text and image that has an odd number of document grid lines in both directions, across all of your document, or set all of them to even number of document grid lines - to avoid spacing issues like I encountered in this example document

[Chris P. Bacon]

If all spacings must also be all either odd or even lines in dimensions, that exceeds my math skills, anyone can help? 

[Chris P. Bacon]

Just want to add that even the number of columns and other divisions must match the either all odd or all even number of document grid lines logic, not only the objects - for the perfect spacings to work.

Additionally, the page itself must be in exact document grid increments in each direction - for perfect even spacings to happen, it seems.

It's difficult to find a document grid cell size that perfectly fits A4 pages, i had to cheat, my document grid cells are just a little bit taller than wide, to perfectly fot the A4 page.

Not sure about letter format.

But that is not an issue, the even/odd logic it's still supposed to work. 

[Chris P. Bacon]

But if the copy text is set to every second line in the document grid (or baseline grid if they are the same height), then all objects and frames must be set to a size of an even number  number of document grid increments, the issue with that that it doesn't fit the 3 column logic, because that is not even.

So I think the baseline grid must be made so that the text is in every baseline, not every second baseline, so it's possible to choose either even or odd logic across the document - if text is in every baseline, without empty baselines - assuming that the document grid cell height is the same as the baseline height. So I will correct my text to be in every base line and check if both the even or odd logic works. Any errors in this math?

[James Gifford—NitroPress]

Baseline grid and document grid are not equivalent or substitutes for each other.

—

[Chris P. Bacon]

4. forgot this

text must be in every baseline, no empty baselines in the copy text - for the exact spacings to work - i assume