What is going on with changing file size!!!???

[sher55865028]

I really need someone to explain to me what kinds of things are unseen in InDesign files that cause file size issues.

Here's my scenario:

I created a tutorial using some PNG art files. It was sitting around 50MB which is too big, IMO. So, I've spend the last 4-5 days trying to make it smaller.

I resized my pngs significantly (surprisingly, it didn't make a difference really) and removed a few (that did).

I was able to bring it down to about 39MB. It does shrink when exporting to PDF, which is what I will be doing, but this is also before I add my photos so I want it to be as small as I can get it.

Font problems have made it necessary to create outlines, so I did and my file size now jumped to 54MB.

I did Save As of this file. My copy was 28MB!! What the heck!??!! How can it copy at almost half the size?

I took the COPY and removed more artwork yet as well as a few pages. And my file jumps to 58MB. Which seems very opposite to what should happen when removing things.

So I did another Save As of this new one (now with fewer pages and artwork than the original 54M document). It saves as 32MB. I'm now incredibly leary of trusting my computer.

Anyway, I have been playing around with this for what feels like forever and it's all the same kind of unreliable results. I'm completely confused. What am I not seeing here that makes this understandable? Is there something about trusting the file size info in Finder (using a Mac) that I should not be doing? I've wondered in the past if those numbers were real. Where else can I see the file size to compare?

Please and thank you for any clarification.

(The document contains hyperlinks and a TOC, in case that makes a difference.)

[Laubender · Accepted solution]

Hi sher55865028 ,

about the file size in Mac OS X Finder:

See the number that show the bytes. Not the KBytes or MBytes. Just the bytes. And yes, that's for real!

Converting text to outline when exporting to PDF will substantially increase file size if you work with a lot of text. Don't do that. If you have technical problems with the fonts, use different fonts where you see no problems. Never convert text to outlines in the document itself. You lose the ability to edit text and you'll see perhaps a lot of visual changes.

Do Save As frequently with your document. That will reduce document size. Not PDF export file size.

Finally you could export to IDML and open the IDML file as document and see if that helps reducing file size of the InDesign document. Not recommended, and if you do this check the document for changes in text formatting.

Regards,
Uwe

[sher55865028]

Thanks for the quick response.

I guess I'm questioning the accuracy of the file size info because when I look at a jpg file size and then pull it into the PS to do something with it, PS tells me it's a different size. So, I'm not sure which one to believe.

I guess I'll have to see if I can get my money back on that font purchase! I was ok with it not being editable since it's just for section titles, but I'm not happy with the enlarged file size.

Do you might explaining why to Save As frequently? Clearly it did reduce the size... until I removed a page and then it jumped up and again. At some point I'm doing something to it that's reversing the reduction. The final copy will need to be PDF, but yes, I don't want to export as pdf just to reduce file size until I'm fully finished with my document.

Thanks again.

[rob day]

I guess I'm questioning the accuracy of the file size info because when I look at a jpg file size and then pull it into the PS to do something with it, PS tells me it's a different size. So, I'm not sure which one to believe.

When you initially place an image a low resolution proxy is created for the preview. If you then choose Embed from the Links panel the image pixels are embedded and the image file size is added to the ID document file size. Same goes for pasting an image from the clipboard.

If you open a JPEG in PS and look at the Document Size info, the number on the left is the approximate size of the file flattened as a .psd, the number on the right includes the channel and layer info with no compression and wouldn't necessarily be included in the saved disk file size.

So adding up all of the image file sizes doesn't predict the InDesign document size. There is also image metadata, which can come into the layout and bloat the document size. There have been a number of threads on metadata bloat, here's one:

Re: Extra Large PDF file size using .TIFs not .JPGs

[sher55865028]

Thank you. That did make total sense about the file difference inside PS.

[Test Screen Name]

These sizes don’t seem exceptional. What is your concern?  It’s worth spending time on the PDF size certainly. (It’s also possible to read your message as saying that once you have a PDF you intend to delete the INDD. No!!!!)

[sher55865028]

I definitely do not have any intentions of deleting my INDD file! I'm actually working on creating my template that I will use for a variety of documents so I will have to have this available for future. And, yes, I agree that this file size isn't too crazy, however, I still need to add upwards of 40 jpgs to the file and each document I create with this template. I want to be able to easily email the document to customers and I know that file size is often an issue for the customers. This is my attempt at creating the most optimized file I can while not losing too much quality and elements of the documents.

(Also, my need to learn a LOT of tech terminology and know-how over the last couple months has me on a hunt to find as many answers as I can. The more I ask, the better chance I don't have to ask later!!)

Thanks for the confirmation that this file size isn't horrible though. Good to know.

[rob day]

however, I still need to add upwards of 40 jpgs to the file and each document I create with this template

If you are thinking placing JPEGS will help with the document size, that is generally not the case. As long as you don't embed, a proxy preview is created for the placed image, and the image format choice doesn't change that.

Also, when you place JPEGs, InDesign decompresses the file, so when you export to one of the default PDF presets there will be a double compression. The image will keep the original lossy compression artifacts, and get re compressed on export. Even if you turn off compression in the export preset, the original compression artifacts have been baked in and you will export the artifacts, but no file compression. In general .PSD is the best image format.

[sher55865028]

Yes, adding the jpegs definitely won't help my file size. I'll do a bit of research on the .PSD format since I'm not familiar with that at all. Thanks for the advice.

[Test Screen Name]

Makes sense. Here are some things that it may help you to know if you're near the start of your journey.

What I can tell you is that design files are often pretty large, and it is rarely a problem.

Other tips: expect your INDD files to corrupt occasionally. You might be lucky and it never happens, but you need an effective strategy for if it happens at the worst possible time. Don't just keep saving over the same file, and make lots of backups. Be ready to go back several generations to go back before a problem you missed.

The file you send to customers is normally a PDF. This can be reduced. You can also make a low resolution PDF with different settings, smaller and better for emailing.

Finally, in prepress many files are much too big to email, and PDF files often get damaged by mailing, so get in the habit of using something like DropBox or WeTransfer to communicate with your customers.

[sher55865028]

Oh, wow, thanks for the heads up on the files corrupting. I've had that problem with an .ai file already and will do on the multiple back-ups. And I'll look into the Dropbox idea. I've been on the receiving end of lots of the types of documents I plan to distribute and have never noticed a problem, but I'd rather be aware.

Again, thanks for the help. This particular thread has been nicely informative. Maybe I shouldn't despise forums so much after all. LOL

Have a great day.

[Erica Gamet]

If you HAVE to use email to send files, always compress/zip them up first. I like to think of it as a protective little cocoon. I do this with anything that isn't a JPEG or PDF file...and especially any AI/PS/ID files.

[sher55865028]

Just an update to this. After too much trouble with the font I was able to get a refund and purchased a different one - after practicing with the free version, of course. I removed the old font and replaced it, did a Save a Copy and my new file size went from 50MB to 9MB!!!! I have limited smarts about the technical world but something tells me that font was causing a lot more trouble than just webbing. Maybe??? Anyway, my search to understand file size changes continues, but this thread definitely helped and I wanted to give an update for those searching this thread for answers in the future.