black and white print and color printing with copier

[christianb47789489]

I have a problem printing a document containing black and white pages and CMYK pages. With my Minolta Bizhub C220 copier when I request an impression by selecting the "automatic color" mode, it prints all the pages in color. Is there a way for the copier to recognize color pages and black and white pages? I have the same problem with printing a PDF file from the file 'InDesign.

Thank you for your help.

[Eugene Tyson]

Sounds like more of an issue with your Minolta Bizhub and your RIP.

Your RIP should be able to detect colour pages and black and white pages and print accordingly.

[christianb47789489]

That is the case. For example, when I print a word document on my copier, it counts black pages and color pages well. It's a matter of cost as I pay each output color much more expensive than a black and white output. I think this is a setting in Indesign. For each page, it should send information about whether or not the page contains CMYK objects. Word does, why InDesign would not?  I do not know.
thanks

[rob day]

I think this is a setting in Indesign. For each page, it should send information about whether or not the page contains CMYK objects.

If an object isn't CMYK then it has to be either RGB or Lab—both are color modes. There is no grayscale or black & white color mode.

You can force a conversion to Grayscale on PDF export, but that would convert everything to grayscale.

[christianb47789489]

Is not a black object simply an object comprising 0C, 0M, 0Y and black at different value? In addition there is a grayscale space on all copiers. when I export my file indesign in PDF and I open the PDF in Illustrator and I display the separations, there is only black and nothing on the other colors CMY.

[rob day]

If you are including any crop or printer marks, the Registration color  uses all 4 CMYK colors—100|100|100|100

[christianb47789489]

I know this because I have been doing DTP since 1988 ... but there are no print marks on my pages. I will continue my research and I will keep you informed.

[Colin Flashman]

What RIP is the OP using? On a Fiery RIP via Command Workstation, its possible to get a colour v black page count.

If you're RIPping a PDF, using Adobe Acrobat DC in the preflight options, can you use a preflight that can count out the colour pages? I've made one available from my dropbox that you can use: Dropbox - Count colour pages.kfp

If the answer to either of the above is yes, are you getting a separate count of colour to bw pages, or is the total count coming out colour?

If the last answer is separate count of colour to bw pages, then perhaps speak to the software support at Minolta, given that you've confirmed a separate colour/bw count. If the answer is all colour pages, that may suggest something is happening client-side.

[christianb47789489]

Thank you for your help but I do not have acrobat DC. my copier does not have a fiery rip

[rob day]

I request an impression by selecting the "automatic color" mode

Could the print driver be making a color managed conversion? If you print a percentage of [Black]—something like 30% (0|0|0|30), does the print have CMY dots when you look at it under a loupe? It's not uncommon for composite printers to color manage CMYK colors and output converted values. Does the Print dialog have a Composite CMYK option under Output? Maybe Automatic is forcing a conversion.

[christianb47789489]

I will try to print my document at a partner on another brand of machine, such as rank xerox or Canon or other and I would see if the black pages are counted as color pages. What is certain is that my black pages are printed only with black and not composite.

[John Mensinger]

christianb47789489  wrote

Word does, why InDesign would not?

A lot of reasons; primarily because a professional graphics workflow (read: NOT Word), requires full control on the part of the operator—nothing automatic. For an InDesign page to output black only, the designer must populate it correctly with elements that will not separate at all to the C, M, and/or Y plates. You may think everything on the page is black, but you can't be sure unless you look at it in Output Preview with the K plate hidden.

In my experience, a page that separates only to the K plate will be recognized as black-only by most click-charge systems.

[christianb47789489]

I agree though it does not work. I exported my indesign file in PDF format. Then I opened a PDF page with illustrator. When I display separations in Illustrator, it only appears the layer of black and no CMY color.

[John Mensinger]

christianb47789489  wrote

I agree though it does not work. I exported my indesign file in PDF format. Then I opened a PDF page with illustrator. When I display separations in Illustrator, it only appears the layer of black and no CMY color.

While it might not make any difference in most cases, you'd be better off just using InDesign's Separations Preview panel (or Acrobat's Output Preview function), rather than opening in Illustrator.

I think this is a setting in Indesign.

It's not. As I asserted in my earlier post, it's only driven by the actual items you put on the page. The one other possibility was mentioned by rob day in post #5.

If you have confirmed you're only sending K to the printer (that's all you can do from your create/edit apps), and it still charges you for a color click, then you have an unwanted conversion at the RIP, or a color-detection malfunction at the printer. Call your account rep and/or Minolta tech Support.

[rob day]

InDesign pages and documents do not have a color Mode. Objects can be a mix of either CMYK, Lab, or RGB, so [Black] is actually a CMYK color when the document intent is Print—0|0|0|100. Placed grayscales normally output to the CMYK black plate, or get converted to 4-color CMYK.

[christianb47789489 · Accepted solution]

I just found the reason for the problem and it is neither indesign nor the copier who are involved. indeed, the problem came from a small black and white logo that had been done on illustrator. Although this logo is actually only black and white it was considered to be in CMJK . Originally this logo had been redesigned using a background layer on which was imported the image CMJK of the logo. this layer was then hidden and the original image erased from the hard drive. when I redid a black and white version of the logo, I reopened this file and illustrator told me it was missing the image. As I did not need it anymore I clicked on "ignore". however, the black and white logo was still considered in CMYK . After many tries I found the solution. I selected all elements of the logo and asked for a conversion to black and white. And it works. it was a little complicated and I think it's rather illustrator that is involved ...

Thank you for your help.

[rob day]

You should be able to use InDesign's preflight panel to catch objects with CMY.

Make a profile with Cyan, Magenta or Yellow Plates Not Allowed and no spot colors. In this example the profile catches all of these apparently black rectangles, one from Illustrator, an InDesign RGB Black fill, and a black spot color.

[christianb47789489]

Thank you very much for your idea

Christian