P: Noise reduction level cannot be used in a ISO independent preset

[ouiouiphoto]

Hello

The denoise level 

Cannot be used in a Iso Dependent preset 

When you can in Sharpening 

Kind regards

[johnrellis]

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"Noise reduction level cannot be used in a ISO [adaptive] preset"

Your screenshot calls out that the preset setting Support Amount Slider can't be used with a preset the includes Denoise:

The Support Amount Slider is unrelated to ISO-adaptive presets -- it's the slider that appears atop the Presets manel and varies the strength of all the settings applied by the preset:

I don't see why you shouldn't be able to use the Amount slider with Denoise -- seems like a bug to me.

[johnrellis]

I wrote, "I don't see why you shouldn't be able to use the Amount slider with Denoise -- seems like a bug".  Thinking about it some more, it seems like a design defect. 

The setting in the Create Preset panel is called "Denoise, Raw Details, Super Resolution". While Denoise has a slider that can be smoothly varied by the Amount slider, Raw Details and Super Resolution don't.  In general, only develop settings that have sliders can be used with Support Amount Slider.

Thus, it would be better to have two separate settings, one for Denoise and the other for Raw Details and Super Resolution. Then Denoise could be used with the Support Amount Slider option.

[johnrellis]

The setting of the new Denoise setting isn't included with all the other Detail-panel settings in ISO Adaptive presets. This is unfortunate, since Denoise is now likely the most important setting that many users want to vary according to ISO.

To reproduce on LR 14.4 / Mac OS 15.5:

1. Select a raw photo with ISO 100 and set all the sliders in the Detail panel (including Denoise) to 10.

2. Select a second raw photo with ISO 1000 and set all the sliders in the Detail panel (including Denoise) to 90.

3. Select both photos in the filmstrip and do Create Preset. Check Detail.

4. Reset both photos and apply the preset from step 3. Observe that the first photo has all the Detail sliders, including Denoise set to 10 (correct). But observe that the second photo has Denoise set to 10 (incorrect) while all the other Detail sliders are set to 90 (correct).

Observe in the preset's .xmp file that Denoise is the only Detail setting not recorded in the ISODependent section:

   <crs:ISODependent>
    <rdf:Seq>
     <rdf:li
      crs:ISO="100"
      crs:Sharpness="10"
      crs:SharpenRadius="1.0"
      crs:SharpenDetail="10"
      crs:SharpenEdgeMasking="10"
      crs:LuminanceSmoothing="10"
      crs:LuminanceNoiseReductionDetail="10"
      crs:LuminanceNoiseReductionContrast="10"
      crs:ColorNoiseReduction="10"
      crs:ColorNoiseReductionDetail="10"
      crs:ColorNoiseReductionSmoothness="10"/>
     <rdf:li
      crs:ISO="1000"
      crs:Sharpness="90"
      crs:SharpenRadius="3.0"
      crs:SharpenDetail="90"
      crs:SharpenEdgeMasking="90"
      crs:LuminanceSmoothing="90"
      crs:LuminanceNoiseReductionDetail="90"
      crs:LuminanceNoiseReductionContrast="90"
      crs:ColorNoiseReduction="90"
      crs:ColorNoiseReductionDetail="90"
      crs:ColorNoiseReductionSmoothness="90"/>
    </rdf:Seq>
   </crs:ISODependent>

The Help mentions including other settings from Details in ISO Adaptive presets but not doesn't exclude Denoise:

https://helpx.adobe.com/lightroom-classic/help/iso-adaptive-presets.html

[ouiouiphoto]

Hello @johnrellis . Thanks for your answer. The initial title was "Bug : Noise reduction level cannot be used in a ISO independent preset" but seems that you cannot use "Bug" in a title 😉  I agree with you this can be a bug or a design defect

The problem is not really the amount slider. The AI Denoise level is not saved in a ISO dependant preset. So if you make denoise level at 10 for a 400 ISO and 90 for a 12800 ISOs and you select the two images to make a ISO dependant Preset the preset will not be ISO dependant. There is no ISO dependant section created in the preset and the preset is not ISO dependant 

You select the two and make a ISO dependant preset

And this is the prest result. No ISO dependant section

<x:xmpmeta xmlns:x="adobe:ns:meta/" x:xmptk="Adobe XMP Core 7.0-c000 1.000000, 0000/00/00-00:00:00        ">
 <rdf:RDF xmlns:rdf="http://www.w3.org/1999/02/22-rdf-syntax-ns#">
  <rdf:Description rdf:about=""
    xmlns:crs="http://ns.adobe.com/camera-raw-settings/1.0/"
   crs:PresetType="Normal"
   crs:Cluster=""
   crs:UUID="62E5ECB2399B0342AE5FA4DD2FE9E5D4"
   crs:SupportsAmount2="False"
   crs:SupportsAmount="False"
   crs:SupportsColor="True"
   crs:SupportsMonochrome="True"
   crs:SupportsHighDynamicRange="True"
   crs:SupportsNormalDynamicRange="True"
   crs:SupportsSceneReferred="True"
   crs:SupportsOutputReferred="True"
   crs:RequiresRGBTables="False"
   crs:ShowInPresets="True"
   crs:ShowInQuickActions="False"
   crs:CameraModelRestriction=""
   crs:Copyright=""
   crs:ContactInfo=""
   crs:Version="17.4"
   crs:CompatibleVersion="285212672"
   crs:Table_8F6B8D68857C067A524F4D37F55874E5=")4000pY/cqk95Ja-SqEt9J*-(nJKGoleFnWWYxON[eTfRir$!1bxI^/YH1B2kzsRVGti`?do0VVh|NS=*!i|+y:/|6]G}/zy)AiMPUcxjB:)Cf7T(+MDt]BFHSV=|%U=!9O]w|vU$cTeqH4{GKE9$DF:ivz1On4!zv(wCbHXf3!#{}Z9F{gQCeiZ)@DhArFAidozD`a%bUHl-lCvyAqpWZ?Ab%DO|W:7]Hz!DfE!c-3[@GhM!}E}g^xR@Pt$xJnpxrbsky`b)[tLJ3x$n{CQU#h^6!I:BPR)nG+alrz[lL|0CaEt.Zk!3c`c(F!MlPpSLd4C^142%3V$soTpNdU8/ap[[6]emDB1"
   crs:AllowFilters="1"
   crs:HasSettings="True">
   <crs:Name>
    <rdf:Alt>
     <rdf:li xml:lang="x-default">Test For Adobe</rdf:li>
    </rdf:Alt>
   </crs:Name>
   <crs:ShortName>
    <rdf:Alt>
     <rdf:li xml:lang="x-default"/>
    </rdf:Alt>
   </crs:ShortName>
   <crs:SortName>
    <rdf:Alt>
     <rdf:li xml:lang="x-default"/>
    </rdf:Alt>
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   <crs:Group>
    <rdf:Alt>
     <rdf:li xml:lang="x-default">Formation</rdf:li>
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   <crs:Description>
    <rdf:Alt>
     <rdf:li xml:lang="x-default"/>
    </rdf:Alt>
   </crs:Description>
   <crs:FilterList rdf:parseType="Resource">
    <crs:Filters>
     <rdf:Seq>
      <rdf:li
       crs:Name="Enhance"
       crs:Title="$$$/CRaw/Filter/Title/Denoise=Denoise"
       crs:FilterID="1"
       crs:MinDisplayVersion="285212672"
       crs:MinEditVersion="285212672"
       crs:OrderIndexN="100000"
       crs:OrderIndexD="1"
       crs:SrcBoundsTop="0"
       crs:SrcBoundsLeft="0"
       crs:SrcBoundsBottom="3670"
       crs:SrcBoundsRight="5496"
       crs:DstBoundsTop="0"
       crs:DstBoundsLeft="0"
       crs:DstBoundsBottom="3670"
       crs:DstBoundsRight="5496"
       crs:SrcDefaultCropAreaTop="12"
       crs:SrcDefaultCropAreaLeft="12"
       crs:SrcDefaultCropAreaBottom="3660"
       crs:SrcDefaultCropAreaRight="5484"
       crs:DstDefaultCropAreaTop="12"
       crs:DstDefaultCropAreaLeft="12"
       crs:DstDefaultCropAreaBottom="3660"
       crs:DstDefaultCropAreaRight="5484"
       crs:ShouldDeleteImagesDueToUpstream="true"
       crs:CompressedSettings="8F6B8D68857C067A524F4D37F55874E5"/>
     </rdf:Seq>
    </crs:Filters>
   </crs:FilterList>
  </rdf:Description>
 </rdf:RDF>
</x:xmpmeta>

[johnrellis]

"The problem is not really the amount slider. "

Right. Your annotated screenshots were calling out the amount slider, so I thought that's what you mean.

I just filed a bug report about ISO Adaptive presets not supporting the new Denoise setting, which just got merged here.  I think it's likely that the developers will call this "as designed", even though every other setting in the Details panel can be included in ISO-adaptive presets.

[ouiouiphoto]

The setting of the new Denoise setting isn't included with all the other Detail-panel settings in ISO Adaptive presets. This is unfortunate, since Denoise is now likely the most important setting that many users want to vary according to ISO.

That's so true. In fact I was preparing an exercise video for my community asking them to make a ISO dependant preset with this new slider. It was obvious to me, it would be possible, and I discover it wasn't 

[Rikk Flohr: Photography]

Thanks for the report @ouiouiphoto  and the analysis @johnrellis. I've launched a ticket with the Classic team to review this behavior. I suspect, but have not confirmed, as John suggests, that there may be an as-designed designation coming with an explanation for the reason for the behavior. 

Let's see what the Classic team advises.