P: Preset hover preview incorrect for Incremental Temperature / Tint

[John R Ellis]

[This bug still exists in LR 10.0. See here for sample images to test with:

https://feedback.photoshop.com/conversations/lightroom-classic/lightroom-classic-preset-hover-previe...]

The preview of a develop preset when hovering over it in the Presets panel is incorrect when the preset contains IncrementalTemperature and IncrementalTint values and the photo being edited is raw. To reproduce:

1. Open a non-raw in Develop and change Temp and Tint to +20.

2. Save a preset "Temp/Tint" with just White Balance checked.

3. Open a raw in Develop.

4. Hover the mouse over Temp/Tint and observe the change to the photo.

5. Click on Temp/Tint and observe there isn't any additional change to the photo (as expected).

6. Move the mouse pointer over the photo. Observe that the photo colors noticeably change.

7. Repeatedly move the mouse pointer back to over the Temp/Tint preset and then back over the photo and observe the change in colors.

Here's an example:

Original photo:


Develop Loupe view with mouse hovering over Temp/Tint preset:


Develop Loupe view after applying Temp/Tint preset with mouse over photo:


Tested on LR 8.4.1 / Mac OS 10.14.6 and Windows 10.

See here for the original report: 
https://community.adobe.com/t5/Lightroom-Classic/Issues-with-Preset-loupe-view-in-Lightroom/m-p/1068...

Here's another preset that exhibits similar symptoms, though it doesn't contain IncrementalTint/Temperature, but apparently only when applied to Canon EOS R raws:
https://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family/topics/lightroom-preset-hover-preview-incorrect-for-...

[John R Ellis]

I found at least 5 people reporting similar symptoms on the other forum. But so far, only you and I have clicked Me Too above.  The number of Me Too's influences Adobe in prioritizing bugs (it's one of many factors).  

Adobe rarely discloses much about bug fixes, unfortunately.

[John R Ellis]

As I suspected, this preset doesn't have IncrementalTemperature/Tint settings. I tried it on raws from several different cameras and didn't observe the bug. But I did observe the bug using this sample raw from the same camera you were using, a Canon EOS R.  And I also observed that changing the profile from Adobe Color to Adobe Monochrome and back then changed Loupe view to match the hover-preset preview, as you did.

So there's something camera-specific about this preset, unlike the the one in my recipe.

[John R Ellis]

I updated the original post to include a link here.  (Product developers sometimes don't carefully read the entire bug report and miss things.)

[Rikk Flohr: Photography]

Before filing this bug I need additional information.

Workflow:

1. Select non-raw file and create preset containing relative WB slider adjustments.
2. Select raw file and mouse over preset created in step 1 - move over image area.
3. Apply preset

Result:

#2 & #3 produce visibly different results?
This visual difference extends to export as well?
Of the two, #2 or #3, which is correct or most correct?

[adriandavidpayne]

You're Absolutely Right!  I just checked the same preset with some files from my Sony A7 III, Canon 5DMK II & Canon 5D MK III.  None of those cameras Raw files exhibit this behavior.  So it's camera specific to the Canon EOS R.

[adriandavidpayne]

Rikk,
I just tried what you suggested.  Since I shoot both RAW & JPG, I took 2 files from yesterday's shoot and dropped them into Lightroom.  The JPG didn't experience the color shift after applying the preset.  The RAW file shifted to red/orange as soon as I applied and hovered off of the preset panel.  & Yes, the shift extends to export as well.

[Todd Shaner]

#2 & #3 produce visibly different results? YES

This visual difference extends to export as well? The export file looks like the raw when NOT hovering over the preset as expected.

Of the two, #2 or #3, which is correct or most correct? #3 is correct when not hovering over the preset

LR 8.4.1 on Windows 10 version 1902

[John R Ellis]

With the IncrementalTemperature/Tint preset, #3 (Loupe view of the preset applied to a raw image) matches the appearance in LR 6.14 of a preset with the same settings applied to the same raw image.

That indicates that #3 is the long-standing behavior of such presets. 

[Todd Shaner]

I did some more checking and the Temp & Tint preset does not change the raw file WB settings by an incremental amount. The WB settings are in fact set to a specific amount determined by the 0-100 Temp & Tint setting used when creating the JPEG preset. Using Temp and Tint settings of +20 produce fixed Temp 6477 and Tint +27 settings when applied to any raw file regardless of its WB setting. Using Temp & Tint 0 settings when creating the preset produce Temp 5001 and Temp +10 when applied to a raw file.

This is most likely not the user's  intent when creating a JPEG preset with Temp & Tint settings so of little use when applied to to a raw file. In fact "relative" preset capability was requested nine years ago at the below post and still has not been implemented.

https://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family/topics/relative_presets_would_save_the_day.

However, you can apply an "incremental" Temp & Tint adjustment in the Develop module to a raw file is by using a local adjustment as outlined at the below link.

https://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family/topics/relative_presets_would_save_the_day?topic-rep...

[adriandavidpayne]

This is all getting a bit convoluted.  The deal is, and I have confirmed this...  Presets work perfectly normal on my Canon 5D MKII, Canon 5D MKIII, Canon 5D MKIV, & Sony A7 III Raw Files.  When using the same exact preset on a Canon EOS R RAW file, the preset only looks normal when hovering over the preset in the preset panel then goes orange/red when the preset is applied and the mouse is no longer hovering over the preset panel.  As someone who works exclusively in RAW, this Bug with the Canon EOS R Raw files is making my workflow slow to a crawl.  

[adriandavidpayne]

*UPDATE*  I just discovered that the problem seems to be isolated to the Adobe Raw Profiles only.  If I use any of the Adobe Raw profile to create my preset the behavior is shift in color orange/red when hovering off the preset panel.  If I chose another Profile such as Camera Standard, Legacy Camera Neutral, everything functions properly.  Make sense?  This just in, I heard from a friend that it is happening on the Nikon D750 as well.  hmmmmm.

[John R Ellis]

Rikk,

a2zproductions' preset problems have somewhat different details from the recipe I posted: the problem preset doesn't contain IncrementalTemperature/Tint, it seems to apply only to one camera (Canon EOS R), and it appears limited to just Adobe profiles.

Would you prefer to fork it into a separate topic or leave it here?  I updated the original post to include a link to his subthread here, but it might get lost in the noise...

[adriandavidpayne]

It's happening on the Nikon D750 as well.  

[Bob Somrak]

Unlike a2zproductions the issue happens on my Canon 5dMkII but the effect is very subtle 

[John R Ellis]

Which preset causes the issue on the 5D MKII, the IncrementalTemperature/Tint preset or a2z's preset?

[Bob Somrak]

Sorry, its the Incremental Temperature/Tint preset so not the same as a2zs issue

[Todd Shaner]

I can confirm the rollover color shift after applying  a2zproductions preset to a Canon EOS R CR3 file, but not with a Nikon D750 NEF or Canon 5D MKII.

[Rikk Flohr: Photography]

John, If we have two distinct issues here that do not overlap we should probably fork that topic.  It will make things more actionable for writing bugs and reporting to the Lightroom Classic team. 

[Todd Shaner]

Rikk, the incremental WB Temp & Tint preset issue (i.e. created with JPEG and applied to raw) appears to affect all camera models.
The second example preset https://console.getsatisfaction.com/photoshop_family/conversations/lightroom-preset-hover-preview-in... created with a Sony ARW raw file contains actual (i.e. relative) Temp and Tint values. I only see the rollover issue when it is applied to EOS R CR3 raw files. The only "camera specific" setting in that preset is the Sony lens profile. This should have no affect on color rendering so it appears this issue is unique to the Canon EOS R camera.
The actual root cause may be related, but from my testing the second preset issue using relative WB Temp & Tint settings is clearly Canon EOS R camera specific.

[adriandavidpayne]

The issues still happens using a preset containing a Canon Lens Profile applied to an EOS R CR3 Raw file.  I am convinced the problem lies in "Adobe Color" in the Profile section as this shift does not happen if another Profile such as "Camera Standard" is chosen and saved into a preset.  Below is the preset with the Canon Lens Profile that still exhibits the color shift/hover behavior:  

<x:xmpmeta xmlns:x="adobe:ns:meta/" x:xmptk="Adobe XMP Core 5.6-c140 79.160451, 2017/05/06-01:08:21        "> <rdf:RDF xmlns:rdf="http://www.w3.org/1999/02/22-rdf-syntax-ns#">;
  <rdf:Description rdf:about=""
    xmlns:crs="http://ns.adobe.com/camera-raw-settings/1.0/";
   crs:PresetType="Normal"
   crs:Cluster=""
   crs:UUID="743B22F3B80D458BBA108F2568470BF8"
   crs:SupportsAmount="False"
   crs:SupportsColor="True"
   crs:SupportsMonochrome="True"
   crs:SupportsHighDynamicRange="True"
   crs:SupportsNormalDynamicRange="True"
   crs:SupportsSceneReferred="True"
   crs:SupportsOutputReferred="True"
   crs:CameraModelRestriction=""
   crs:Copyright=""
   crs:ContactInfo=""
   crs:Version="11.4.1"
   crs:ProcessVersion="11.0"
   crs:WhiteBalance="Custom"
   crs:Temperature="5246"
   crs:Tint="+3"
   crs:Saturation="-8"
   crs:Sharpness="52"
   crs:LuminanceSmoothing="0"
   crs:ColorNoiseReduction="25"
   crs:VignetteAmount="0"
   crs:ShadowTint="-9"
   crs:RedHue="+5"
   crs:RedSaturation="-24"
   crs:GreenHue="+9"
   crs:GreenSaturation="+5"
   crs:BlueHue="-18"
   crs:BlueSaturation="+45"
   crs:Vibrance="+30"
   crs:HueAdjustmentRed="+13"
   crs:HueAdjustmentOrange="0"
   crs:HueAdjustmentYellow="-5"
   crs:HueAdjustmentGreen="-19"
   crs:HueAdjustmentAqua="0"
   crs:HueAdjustmentBlue="0"
   crs:HueAdjustmentPurple="0"
   crs:HueAdjustmentMagenta="0"
   crs:SaturationAdjustmentRed="0"
   crs:SaturationAdjustmentOrange="-24"
   crs:SaturationAdjustmentYellow="-31"
   crs:SaturationAdjustmentGreen="+6"
   crs:SaturationAdjustmentAqua="0"
   crs:SaturationAdjustmentBlue="+4"
   crs:SaturationAdjustmentPurple="-100"
   crs:SaturationAdjustmentMagenta="0"
   crs:LuminanceAdjustmentRed="-8"
   crs:LuminanceAdjustmentOrange="-15"
   crs:LuminanceAdjustmentYellow="-1"
   crs:LuminanceAdjustmentGreen="0"
   crs:LuminanceAdjustmentAqua="0"
   crs:LuminanceAdjustmentBlue="0"
   crs:LuminanceAdjustmentPurple="0"
   crs:LuminanceAdjustmentMagenta="0"
   crs:SplitToningShadowHue="0"
   crs:SplitToningShadowSaturation="0"
   crs:SplitToningHighlightHue="69"
   crs:SplitToningHighlightSaturation="12"
   crs:SplitToningBalance="0"
   crs:ParametricShadows="-18"
   crs:ParametricDarks="+24"
   crs:ParametricLights="0"
   crs:ParametricHighlights="0"
   crs:ParametricShadowSplit="25"
   crs:ParametricMidtoneSplit="50"
   crs:ParametricHighlightSplit="75"
   crs:SharpenRadius="+1.0"
   crs:SharpenDetail="25"
   crs:SharpenEdgeMasking="0"
   crs:PostCropVignetteAmount="-16"
   crs:PostCropVignetteMidpoint="50"
   crs:PostCropVignetteFeather="50"
   crs:PostCropVignetteRoundness="0"
   crs:PostCropVignetteStyle="1"
   crs:PostCropVignetteHighlightContrast="0"
   crs:GrainAmount="0"
   crs:ColorNoiseReductionDetail="50"
   crs:ColorNoiseReductionSmoothness="50"
   crs:LensProfileEnable="1"
   crs:LensManualDistortionAmount="0"
   crs:PerspectiveVertical="0"
   crs:PerspectiveHorizontal="0"
   crs:PerspectiveRotate="0.0"
   crs:PerspectiveScale="100"
   crs:PerspectiveAspect="0"
   crs:PerspectiveUpright="0"
   crs:PerspectiveX="0.00"
   crs:PerspectiveY="0.00"
   crs:AutoLateralCA="1"
   crs:Exposure2012="+0.90"
   crs:Contrast2012="+51"
   crs:Highlights2012="-100"
   crs:Shadows2012="+43"
   crs:Whites2012="+21"
   crs:Blacks2012="-46"
   crs:Clarity2012="+21"
   crs:DefringePurpleAmount="0"
   crs:DefringePurpleHueLo="30"
   crs:DefringePurpleHueHi="70"
   crs:DefringeGreenAmount="0"
   crs:DefringeGreenHueLo="40"
   crs:DefringeGreenHueHi="60"
   crs:Dehaze="0"
   crs:Texture="-26"
   crs:OverrideLookVignette="True"
   crs:ToneCurveName="Custom"
   crs:ToneCurveName2012="Custom"
   crs:LensProfileSetup="Custom"
   crs:LensProfileName="Adobe (Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8 L USM)"
   crs:LensProfileFilename="Canon EOS-1Ds Mark III (Canon EF 24-70mm f2.8 L USM) - RAW.lcp"
   crs:LensProfileDigest="E54C41E7B7D49594FF5E60B650754194"
   crs:LensProfileDistortionScale="0"
   crs:LensProfileChromaticAberrationScale="100"
   crs:LensProfileVignettingScale="0"
   crs:HasSettings="True"
   crs:CropConstrainToWarp="0">
   <crs:Name>
    <rdf:Alt>
     <rdf:li xml:lang="x-default">Gibson Silver Canon Lens Profile</rdf:li>
    </rdf:Alt>
   </crs:Name>
   <crs:ShortName>
    <rdf:Alt>
     <rdf:li xml:lang="x-default"/>
    </rdf:Alt>
   </crs:ShortName>
   <crs:SortName>
    <rdf:Alt>
     <rdf:li xml:lang="x-default"/>
    </rdf:Alt>
   </crs:SortName>
   <crs:Group>
    <rdf:Alt>
     <rdf:li xml:lang="x-default">Gibson Sisters</rdf:li>
    </rdf:Alt>
   </crs:Group>
   <crs:Description>
    <rdf:Alt>
     <rdf:li xml:lang="x-default"/>
    </rdf:Alt>
   </crs:Description>
   <crs:ToneCurve>
    <rdf:Seq>
     <rdf:li>0, 0</rdf:li>
     <rdf:li>32, 22</rdf:li>
     <rdf:li>64, 56</rdf:li>
     <rdf:li>128, 128</rdf:li>
     <rdf:li>192, 196</rdf:li>
     <rdf:li>255, 255</rdf:li>
    </rdf:Seq>
   </crs:ToneCurve>
   <crs:ToneCurvePV2012>
    <rdf:Seq>
     <rdf:li>0, 13</rdf:li>
     <rdf:li>64, 65</rdf:li>
     <rdf:li>174, 171</rdf:li>
     <rdf:li>255, 255</rdf:li>
    </rdf:Seq>
   </crs:ToneCurvePV2012>
   <crs:ToneCurvePV2012Red>
    <rdf:Seq>
     <rdf:li>0, 0</rdf:li>
     <rdf:li>255, 255</rdf:li>
    </rdf:Seq>
   </crs:ToneCurvePV2012Red>
   <crs:ToneCurvePV2012Green>
    <rdf:Seq>
     <rdf:li>0, 0</rdf:li>
     <rdf:li>255, 255</rdf:li>
    </rdf:Seq>
   </crs:ToneCurvePV2012Green>
   <crs:ToneCurvePV2012Blue>
    <rdf:Seq>
     <rdf:li>0, 0</rdf:li>
     <rdf:li>255, 255</rdf:li>
    </rdf:Seq>
   </crs:ToneCurvePV2012Blue>
   <crs:Look>
    <rdf:Description
     crs:Name="Adobe Color"
     crs:Amount="1.000000"
     crs:UUID="B952C231111CD8E0ECCF14B86BAA7077"
     crs:SupportsAmount="false"
     crs:SupportsMonochrome="false"
     crs:SupportsOutputReferred="false"
     crs:Stubbed="true">
    <crs:Group>
     <rdf:Alt>
      <rdf:li xml:lang="x-default">Profiles</rdf:li>
     </rdf:Alt>
    </crs:Group>
    </rdf:Description>
   </crs:Look>
  </rdf:Description>
 </rdf:RDF>
</x:xmpmeta>

[John R Ellis]

Perhaps its best to keep one topic for now, since the symptoms overlap -- the preset hover preview doesn't match the applied preview -- though some of the details are different.

[Guest]

So, is Adobe going to fix this bug or are they hoping that no one will notice? 

[John R Ellis]

Based on past experience, it takes at least 1, usually 2, release cycles for an acknowledged bug to get fixed. But many bugs take much longer, and many more never get fixed.  (LR releases about once every two months.)  Adobe rarely says when bugs will be fixed, so we just have to wait.

[Smit K]

We have logged a bug for this.

[Guest]

Oh, thats very uninspiring. Any tips to get around the problem? Since right now i can't edit photos since im fully reliant on presets. 


Thank you in advance.