P: Published Folders renamed does not rename in Finder on macOS Ventura 13.0.1

[The Keeper of the Garden]

LR Classic 12.0.1

macOS Ventura 13.0.1

Steps to reproduce:

1. Create a Published Folder in a Hard Drive Publish Service.
2. Add one or more photos to that folder.
3. Publish the photos.
4. Check the name and contents of the folder in Finder (everything is fine at this point).
5. Rename the Published Folder in LR Classic.

Expected Result: The original folder has been renamed by LR Classic in Finder as well.

Actual Result: The original folder has not been renamed in Finder!

Additional Remark: When re-publishing the photos of the renamed Published Folder, LR Classic creates a new folder with those photos in Finder, and leaves the original folder (the one with the original name in LR Classic) alone.  

[Rikk Flohr: Photography]

"Rename the Published Folder in LR Classic."

Can you describe step-by-step how you do this?

[The Keeper of the Garden]

To rename the Published Folder, I right-click on its name and one of the options appearing is to rename it.

FYI: I already tried solving the issue by resetting the access privileges of Lightroom Classic in System Settings concerning Files and Folders and concerning Full Disk Access. Plus a restart of my iMac. No change.

[GoldingD]

Please post a screen capture of where/what you are attempting. Published Folder seems wrong. Their is the Folders Panel in the Library module, and their is the Publish Services, what one are you in?

[The Keeper of the Garden]

The issue cannot be captured in a screen shot. You seem not to be aware of the fact that in every single "Hard Drive" Publish Service several "Published Folders" can be created. Every single one of those "Published Folders" is basically just a folder nested within the parent folder that is defined when creating the Hard Drive Publish Service. 

What I am trying to do is a normal thing to do, and just one of the features that Published Folders allow you to do: create them, delete them, or rename them. You can even create Published Folder Sets and Smart Published Folders. All of that works fine, but since upgrading to macOS Ventura and/or updating to the latest version of LR Classic, renaming a Published Folder is no longer reflected in Finder (IOW the OS seems not to allow LR to change folder names outside the LR app). 

[The Keeper of the Garden]

Is this issue now acknowledged as being a bug?

[GoldingD]

Ok, the feature you are using may be obscure to most of us. Yep, in these community pages you can learn something new (at least new to me). Reading your posts over again, and accomplishing some online research (via google) makes me think you are referring to the process in the following link:

https://helpx.adobe.com/lightroom-classic/help/export-hard-drive-using-publish.html

Correct??

[The Keeper of the Garden]

Yes!! And that feature is very useful if you want to keep track within LR Classic of photos that you publish to social media or other websites that don't have a Publish Service plugin for LR Classic. I use it all the time. And now it's "broken" because when you rename a folder within that Hard Drive Publish Service, the change is no longer reflected by the Finder of macOS Ventura.

[GoldingD]

Following reply has been edited (my bad)

Ok, my first test on my Windows workstation.(Windows 10)

• I can create the publish service to hard drive.
• I can see that hard drive folder via File Explorer
• I can creeate the publish folder in LrC
• I can see the publsh folder as a subfolder to the above in File Explorer
• I can place images into the publish folder (in LrC) and I can publish
• I can see those resultant expoted images via File Explorer in the publish folder
• I can rename the publish folder
• In File Eplorer, I see both the previous publish folder and the new publish folder, Folder not actually renamed, a new folder created instead.
• I do not see the images in the new folder
• In LrC, Publish Service, I mark the images in the publish folder to be republished. I publish, and in File Explorer, they appear.

Followup, on MACBookPro (12.6.1) The same

• I can create the publish service to hard drive.
• I can see that hard drive folder via Finder
• I can creeate the publish folder in LrC
• I can see the publsh folder as a subfolder to the above in Finder
• I can place images into the publish folder (in LrC) and I can publish
• I can see those resultant expoted images via Finder in the publish folder
• I can rename the publish folder
• In Finder, I see both the previous publish folder and the new publish folder, Folder not actually renamed, a new folder created instead.
• I do not see the images in the new folder
• In LrC, Publish Service, I mark the images in the publish folder to be republished. I publish, and in Finder, they appear.

[The Keeper of the Garden]

You should have spared yourself the trouble. The problem ONLY exists in macOS Ventura (13.0.1)! I never had this problem with any previous macOS versions. 

[GoldingD]

Were those, basically the steps? If so, perhaps you can get the attention of the actual Adobe employee, Rikk Flohr, by replying to his inquiry.

[The Keeper of the Garden]

Those were the detailed steps, yes. And I already replied to Rikk Flohr on November 19th. I would like to see this problem acknowledged by Adobe. 

[Rikk Flohr: Photography]

I can reproduce this but am checking with the team on as-designed behavior. 

[The Keeper of the Garden]

I don't want to sound impolite, but "as-designed behaviour" would mean that I am lying when I say that this started to happen with the latest version of LrC on macOS Ventura 13.0.1 and never happened before. I use this feature very often and it always worked flawlessly. The Hard Drive Publish Service of LrC was always able to create, rename, delete, add photos to, and remove photos from any folder in the user's directory,  just as it is when simply using the Library folder features and options. I suspect that the cause lies in a change in how macOS Ventura allows or disallows LrC to rename and delete folders and photos within folders from within its Hard Drive Publish Service. 

Perhaps I should check the following also: Is LrC still able to rename and delete the folders that are managed by its Library module? I suppose it is because in that case there would be lots of users reporting about it. I usually don't create, touch, or rename any folder after import and as far as I see, LrC does still create a new folder (named and arranged by date) whenever I import photos. But I will go and check now to see what happens in Finder when I rename a folder from within LrC's Folder panel in the Library module. 

[Rikk Flohr: Photography]

Let's review what's happened in the thread so far:

1.  You reported behavior
2. Questions were asked and answered
3.  I can repeat the behavior
4.  A bug was written
5.  Status of the post moved from "No Status" to "Investigating"
6.  I've asked the team to comment on designed behavior so that we are certain that no change in behavior was initiated on the development side that would make this not a bug.  No one is disputing a change in behavior. What is not yet known is: was a deliberate change made?

I am struggling to see how any of  that disparages you but my apologies if you feel that way. 

[GoldingD]

I don't want to sound impolite, but "as-designed behaviour" would mean that I am lying when I say that this started to happen with the latest version of LrC on macOS Ventura 13.0.1 and never happened before. I use this feature very often and it always worked flawlessly. 

By "as designed" The Adobe employee may not be refering to as always designed, but as in current design, as in they intentially changed someting. For example getting rid of the Done button that so many people are mad at. As in, they did something stupid.

[The Keeper of the Garden]

I fail to see how the Hard Drive Publish Service would be of any use from now on if such a "behaviour" (which is actually the privilege of living beings, not of machines or software) would be "by design" and introduced in total silence in the latest version of LrC. Logic and experience in IT tells me it's something that has to do with the interaction of LrC and macOS Ventura. But I'm happy it's being investigated. 

"To err is human - to really mess up things, you need a computer." (anonymous quote, hanging above the entrance door of WordPerfect's Support Department some thirty years ago...)

[The Keeper of the Garden]

I understood that. I just don't understand how changing the essence of the Hard Drive Publishing Service being able to manage folders within Finder, would be something that was done on purpose. If the Library Folder panel can still do the same, why or how would the Hard Drive Publishing Service not be able to do it anymore? The problem started with the upgrade from Monterey to Ventura. I don't suspect LrC to have changed anything about how it manages folders and files in Finder. I suspect macOS Ventura did. 🙂 

[GoldingD]

Would not be the first time Adobe changed something and did not document the change. Would not be the first time Adobe made a very bad decision. Would not be the first time Adobe made a workflow damaging change without customer involvement. And it would not be the first time that some coder fouled up.

[The Keeper of the Garden]

Having "coded" myself in the Pleistocene of computers and software, I always give credit to software engineers and know that one piece of software created by one software engineer usually works fine by itself, until some other piece of software or upgraded operating system was changed "fot the better" by some other software engineer and makes the first piece of software misbehave. 🙂 

When I worked for Support at WordPerfect, there were basically only 3 files that could cause problems for the user. It usually only took a few minutes to find the culprit and solve the problem, unless it was some problem related to printer drivers (or a computer catching fire - no joke, it actually happened). Nowadays, well over 500 processes run all at the same time inside the processor and RAM... It's a miracle computers usually still run and do what they are expected to do.  

[The Keeper of the Garden]

Some additional information:

1. The strange "behaviour" only seems to occur when newly-created Hard Drive Published Folders are involved. Newly-created meaning after installation of macOS Ventura or perhaps (I'm unable to test or confirm this) with the latest version of LrC running on any previous macOS. I have been able to successfully rename older Hard Drive Published Folders (older = created before installing macOS Ventura) without LrC creating a new folder in Finder with the new name whilst leaving the old folder in Finder unchanged and containing all the photos of that old folder in place, whilst the new folder with the new name stays empty until all photos are republished.
2. In my case, LrC has no issues renaming photo folders listed in its Folder panel of the Library module, but there is a difference (and that's why I said: "in my case"), as I have those Library photo folders on an external drive (HFS+ formatted) whilst the Hard Drive Published Folders are on my internal Fusion Drive (APFS formatted). I can therefore not really confirm there is no issue in the Folder panel of the Library module as there are two different drives involved.

[John R Ellis]

When I follow the recipe with LR 12.0.1:

- On Mac OS 12.6.1, the folder gets renamed in Finder.  Adding photos to the renamed publish-service folder in LR and then publishing causes those photos to appear in the renamed folder.

- On Mac OS 13.0, Windows 10, and Windows 11, the folder doesn't get renamed in Finder / File Explorer.  Adding photos to the renamed publish-service folder in LR and then publishing causes those new photos to appear in the renamed folder in Finder / File Explorer, but the the previously published photos appear in the originally named folder.  Deleting all photos from the publish service and then publishing deletes the photos in the renamed folder in Finder / File Explorer but not in the originally named folder.

If the behavior on Mac OS 13 and Windows is "as designed", it would be good to get a design rationale.

[The Keeper of the Garden]

This annoying bug, making a consistent use of Published Folders impossible, is still present in LrC 12.2! 

[The Keeper of the Garden]

This bug is still present in LrC 12.3. I used this feature all the time and since at least November 2022 it is no longer working! Please get rid of this bug asap!

[The Keeper of the Garden]

This bug destroys my workflow. I can't understand why it has to take so long to repair something so important, basic, and fundamental. LrC no longer manages folders correctly in the Published Folders section of its Publish Services. This is a fundamental flaw.

[The Keeper of the Garden]

Bug still present in LrC 12.4 on macOS Ventura 13.4! Still not taken care of, since November 2022... Still making my workflow with Published Folders useless.