Lightroom Classic 14.2 losing "New Remove Spot" edits after quitting

[atj777]

I think this is actually a bug but will report it here and the moderators can decide if it is a bug.

Lightroom Classic 14.2 on Mac mini with Apple M2 Pro, 32GB, Sonama 14.7.1.  This is a with a fairly new catalog with not many images.

If I start with a new image with lots to be cleaned up:

I use the new Remove tool and spend 20 minutes cleaning up the image:

I quit Lightroom and restart and my edits are gone but I have a message "Some Remove settings need to be updated":

I click "Update All" and wait around 4 minutes for the updates to complete. They finish but the image is not what it was before I quite.  i.e. the updates don't work properly and I have to clean up the image some more.

1) Lightroom should NOT lose the edits just by quitting

2) If it is going to lose the edits, refreshing them should put it back the way it was before it lost the edits.

[JohanElzenga]

I noticed the right panel shows the remove tool panel in all screenshots. Did you close the tool panel (go back to general edits) before you quit Lightroom? Maybe not closing the panel will not write the edits into the catalog properly and so this triggers the update requirement.

[atj777]

I noticed the right panel shows the remove tool panel in all screenshots. Did you close the tool panel (go back to general edits) before you quit Lightroom? Maybe not closing the panel will not write the edits into the catalog properly and so this triggers the update requirement.

I don't believe that is the cause. Earlier today I worked on three images straight after each other before I quit and lost the edits on all three images. There's no way to move from one image to the next without closing the tool panel.

This only started happening after ugrading to 14.2 and doesn't happen every time but happens often enough to be extremely frustrating.

[JohanElzenga]

Strange. I haven't seen never seen it and I have not seen any other reports either. As Lightroom Classic 14.2 has been out for quite some time, it seems unlikely that this is a general bug in version 14.2 rather than something on your computer.

[JohanElzenga]

A standard advice when strange things are happening is to reset the preferences: 

https://www.lightroomqueen.com/how-do-i-reset-lightrooms-preferences/

[GoldingD]

In your screenshots, I do not see any AI edits (in this case generative remove would be the AI in question) So my furst hunch in MACOSand LrC v14 is probably not correct, that being something wrong with access to the lrcat-data file. Perhaps another member can squish that thought down to not the issue.

[atj777]

The New Remove tool is AI based and the data are definitely stored in the lrcat-data file. The previous Heal tool was also AI based.

In fact, if you look at the last of my screen shots it clearly says "Update AI Settings" as the last step in the History after I clicked on "Update All"

[JohanElzenga]

There is AI and there is Generative AI. The remove tool is indeed AI based, even if you do not check the option to use Generative AI. The .lrcat-data file could be the problem. There are reports that this file sometimes gets corrupted, or that Lightroom can't write to it because of permission problems. You could try moving it out of the catalog folder, so Lightroom builds a new one. That will mean you'll have to update AI settings one more time, but then the problem should be over.

[atj777]

The .lrcat-data file could be the problem. There are reports that this file sometimes gets corrupted, or that Lightroom can't write to it because of permission problems. You could try moving it out of the catalog folder, so Lightroom builds a new one. That will mean you'll have to update AI settings one more time, but then the problem should be over.

Please see the last part of my original post. Updating the AI settings does NOT get me back to what I had originally.

At the moment I am having the problem on a couple of images and the majority of the images are fine. If I was to delete the lrcat-data file, every single one of my images where I have used the Remove tool would not only have to be updated and then updated manually again after that.

I should point out that this is with a relatively new catalog (less than 3 weeks old) which I created because it was "suspected" that my previous lrcat-data file was "potentially" corrupted. How many times am I going to have to keep doing this? 

I never had this problem prior to LRc 14 and seeing other people are having similar issues with their AI settings not being saved correctly, there is obviously a problem with the code. Deleting the lrcat-data file is a workaround and not a fix.

[GoldingD]

So is that lrcat-data file corrupt? If you rename or move it outside of LrC, the restart LrC and let/cause it to be recreated, do things improve? This may eat up a lot of time, it may waste a lot of time. Not sure if is an issue at Adobe or Apple, but similar discussions appear to involve MACOS, not WINOS, and might be limited to Apple vs Intel silicone. (I forget if old CPU or new CPU are involved), and might involve specific MACOS

[atj777]

I'm not going to delete the lrcat-data file.  That is not a fix.

[johnrellis]

"I'm not going to delete the lrcat-data file.  That is not a fix."

There are many reports here and in the Lightroom Queen forum of this fixing the problem with AI masking and removes needing to be updated soon after moving to another photo in Develop. But if you're not interested in workarounds that have helped many others, that's on you.

[atj777]

There are many reports here and in the Lightroom Queen forum of this fixing the problem with AI masking and removes needing to be updated soon after moving to another photo in Develop. But if you're not interested in workarounds that have helped many others, that's on you.

Please reread my original post, especially the last part where I show that updating the AI settings does not restore the photo to what it was after I had made the edits.  Also read my reply to Johan.

If I was to delete the lrcat-data file, I would end up in exactly the same position for that one photo as I am without deleting it but just updating the AI settings, except, I would have to update ALL the AI settings for ALL the photos in the catalog that I have used the remove tool on.  i.e. I would be in a much worse position overall as all my edit photos would be screwed.

Clearly, if the issue is the lrcat-data file is being corrupted, the fix is to stop it being corrupted. People have only started reporting this probem on LRc 14 (I know I never had it before) so the problem must lie in the LRc 14 code.

[johnrellis]

I understood your previous posts.

However, in general, others experiencing corrupted .lrcat-data files have observed that eventually, all photos with AI masking and removes need to have their settings recomputed before they can export the photos.  Even if the previews look correct (due to LR preview cache), the settings need to be updated for the exports to be able to render the photos.

You haven't reported trying to export a sample of, say, 10 previously edited photos. Absent that, it's safer to assume that you won't be able to export them with the AI edits.  In other words, it's likely that you don't have a choice -- either Update AI Settings preserves the edits for export or they're already lost.

Of course you're making backups, so after doing a batch Update AI Settings, it would be straightforward to revert to the backup.

And of course, Adobe should ensure that LR doesn't corrupt the .lrcat-data file (just as it shouldn't corrupt Helper.lrdata, Previews.lrdata, .lrcat, and preferences). As described above, deleting the .lrcat-data file is a workaround.

* * *

One thing to check: If you're syncing the catalog folder with a cloud service (Dropbox, Google Drive, etc.) that often causes catalogs to become inconsistent.

[atj777]

However, in general, others experiencing corrupted .lrcat-data files have observed that eventually, all photos with AI masking and removes need to have their settings recomputed before they can export the photos.  Even if the previews look correct (due to LR preview cache), the settings need to be updated for the exports to be able to render the photos.

You haven't reported trying to export a sample of, say, 10 previously edited photos. Absent that, it's safer to assume that you won't be able to export them with the AI edits.  In other words, it's likely that you don't have a choice -- either Update AI Settings preserves the edits for export or they're already lost.

I have not had any issues at all exporting photos. In fact, just yesterday I exported 16 photos, each with lots of AI removes, and every exported photo looks as clean as it looks in Lightroom. Three of those 16 had lost their edits on quiting Lightroom.

Basically I have had 5 or so photos exhibt the behaviour described in the first post. After I clean up the photo again with the AI Remove after Update AI Setting does a poor job, the photo is fine and I have had no further issues with it.

Here's the photo from the original post after I exported it ready for submission to a Citizen Science site.

Of course you're making backups, so after doing a batch Update AI Settings, it would be straightforward to revert to the backup.

Indeed. I take regular backups but I already know that a batch update of the AI settings will workout worse than I have now so I won't attempt it - plus it would take many hours even with the subset of my original catalog that I'm working on now.

One thing to check: If you're syncing the catalog folder with a cloud service (Dropbox, Google Drive, etc.) that often causes catalogs to become inconsistent.

Nope. All the catalog related files are sitting on my internal SSD and do not sync anywhere.

[atj777]

This is what I am trying now... 

I created a newer catalog by Exporting as Catalog from All Photographs (currently only 2215 photographs as to opposed to my original catalog which has over 300k).  

I will start using this Newer catalog and see if the problem recurs.

[atj777]

So even with creating a brand new catalog with a brand new lrcat-data file, the problem recurred.