Nikon D850 RAW File Converter to DNG - loss of image quality?

[fredericd54756768]

Hi

I am using the Nikon D850 and am aware that Adobe LR does not yet support the Nikon RAW files. So I am using the DNG Converter (as proposed by Adobe) for the first time ever. Can it be that there is a loss of image quality in DNG compared to the original RAW File? If this is so, how long will it take Adobe to get a RAW/LR update who makes it possible to read RAW Files without using the converter? (I am based in Switzerland).

If the update comes soon, I would wait with the editing of this weekends wedding shooting.

Thanks for every advice (can also be on how to setup the DNG converter to get the maximum out of each file, in case the update takes longer).

Cheers - Frederic

[dj_paige]

fredericd54756768  wrote

Can it be that there is a loss of image quality in DNG compared to the original RAW File?

In general, the answer is an emphatic NO.

Why do you ask?

[fredericd54756768]

thank you!

well, I shot with two cameras, D750 and D850. D750 is the RAW File, D850 is the converted DNG... maybe I am just not used to it but the quality of both files seems to be different... I will get use do it - but still wait for an update to start working as I am used to 😉

thanks - Frederic

[khatrichirag]

Yes, I'm using my D850's RAW files with DNG converter and then importing them to post-process, I strongly feel (and see) the difference in colors as they look about 25-30% dull as when compared to the JPEG of the same file saved on secondary card. I happened to look at the JPEGs because I saw the dull DNG's and that looked very unsatisfying and I asked myself, "Are these D850 RAW files? That's BAD!"

I've never used DNG converter before and hence never worked with them in past, but I'm having a feeling that the same  Uncoverted NEF (RAW) file will look (a little if not more) better than DNG files when imported and compared - And we have to wait for the native D850 NEF support for that.... Any inputs?

[99jon]

The DNGs will be imported with Adobe Standard profile. When the D850 profile becomes available you should get the regular choices e.g. camera neutral, portrait, standard, vivid, flat, landscape etc. In the meantime you could tweak the Adobe Standard profile using the sliders under Camera Calibration and apply as a preset. If you also have Photoshop it can be updated to ACR 9.12.1 immediately in Creative Cloud Desktop and the D850 files will be recognized.

[fredericd54756768]

thank you!

[fredericd54756768]

thank you for your statement... that helps a lot because I don't have the feeling of being alone with that anymore 🙂 So, let's see what happens in the near future with all the updates.

thanks to all of you guys who replied to my question for all the valuable inputs and feedbacks - highly appreciate it!

[dj_paige]

khatrichirag  wrote

Yes, I'm using my D850's RAW files with DNG converter and then importing them to post-process, I strongly feel (and see) the difference in colors as they look about 25-30% dull as when compared to the JPEG of the same file saved on secondary card.

This has nothing to do with the DNG converter. That's how RAW photos are, they have no development applied, while the JPGs do have development applied in the camera. You have to edit the RAWs to get them to look as nice, or nicer, than the JPGs.

I've never used DNG converter before and hence never worked with them in past, but I'm having a feeling that the same  Uncoverted NEF (RAW) file will look (a little if not more) better than DNG files when imported and compared - And we have to wait for the native D850 NEF support for that.... Any inputs?

The RAW in LR (if you could use it) and the DNG from the DNG converter will appear identical when unedited by LR.

You do not have a problem. What you are seeing is the way things are supposed to look.

[khatrichirag]

Thank you for your inputs. But I must admit that I haven't seen such dullness in my D7200 NEF (RAW) files! and as I was used to work with them, the moment I imported DNGs I could see the difference. I agree that JPEGs are edited depending on each Camera, but these DNG files seriously looks lifeless...

[99jon]

I don’t own the camera but obtained some sample NEFs from the D850. I converted to DNG and found the results very acceptable in Lightroom. This model seems to have amazing IQ and noise results even at very high ISO and LR handled these very large raw files extremely well. I realise that many users prefer a NEF workflow in LR rather than opening files in Photoshop camera raw and saving as tiff/PSD/Jpeg. However this is a temporary situation and I know Adobe is working to bring support for this new camera to LR as soon as possible.

Click image to enlarge

[dj_paige]

khatrichirag  wrote

Thank you for your inputs. But I must admit that I haven't seen such dullness in my D7200 NEF (RAW) files! and as I was used to work with them, the moment I imported DNGs I could see the difference. I agree that JPEGs are edited depending on each Camera, but these DNG files seriously looks lifeless...

As I said, you need to edit the photos. When they are unedited, they will appear the way you describe. There is nothing wrong here.

[KR Seals]

Now that D850 support is out in LR CL and LR 6.13, do you see a difference between the files converted to DNG and the original NEFs?

[itekiti]

I see a very big drop in image quality after conversion.

I don't know what happened, but n last conversion of 500 images, about 5 was looking like that on DNG.

NEF is looking OK.

[Todd Shaner]

That looks like data corruption most likely due to the card reader, USB cable, or system memory. I suggest transferring the D850 NEFs to a location on your HDD Pictures storage BEFORE the DNG conversion. This minimizes the amount of system activity during the memory card NEF file transfer to HDD.

[ManiacJoe]

There should be no loss of image quality with the DNG converter, assuming reasonable settings for the DNG converter.

Note: the Picture Controls and other camera settings used by Nikon software for their initial display of the image are not used by Adobe or any other third-party software, so the initial display of the image by Adobe will not necessarily look like the Nikon version.

Adobe's track record for new camera releases is one whole minor release after the official release of the camera. So for example, 6.12 is the current version, 6.13 would be the planned version already in development before Nikon officially released the D850, 6.14 would be the expected version of LR to support the D850. It is possible that 6.13 gets the new camera update for the D850; it could be that 7.0 gets it. Adobe does not discuss such things with the public.

[fredericd54756768]

thank you - great explanation!

Frederic

[francescospighi]

Here on my D850 review, you can easily see the difference. What's clear is that there is an evident difference in how DNG converter manages M-Raw compared to Nikon's software, making them almost not usable at the moment. Hope you guys can send this note to developers because now for us could be a great limit.

Nikon D850 Review // Fied test & Real World and Wedding

[Todd Shaner]

Francesco, I agree with your observations concerning the Nikon D850 m raw file sharpening using both the original NEF file with Adobe Camera Raw 9.12.1 and the converted DNG file in LR CC 2015.12. They are identical and both require a very high Sharpening Amount. (75+) to achieve reasonable sharpness.

You can speak directly with Adobe Engineer David Franzen at the below Photoshop Family post:

nikon 850 raw+ camera raw | Photoshop Family Customer Community

[ejfeliz65]

It has taken me ALL day to convert almost 2,000 images from a trip I just finished...that is crazy!! You can't tell me that with the number of Lr and all the other Adobe products Nikon users that they (Adobe) could not have had a software update ready for the d850 release date, unless they are battling with Nikon for some reason. it's just plain stupid.

[Todd Shaner]

ACR update 9.12.1 was released on Sept. 6, 2017 with Nikon D850 support. The LR and ACR updates usually occur on the same day, but not this time. It's anybody's guess as to why except perhaps the issue being discussed here with D850 s and m Raw files. Adobe Engineering claims here there isn't any issue, but one wonders based on user field testing.......

[ManiacJoe]

Nikon does consider Adobe a competitor, just like every other company, so Nikon does not share its file formats with any other company, just like Canon and other camera makers do not share.

Adobe does not get access to the new files until the camera is officially released, and then Adobe can start reverse engineering the new files.

trshaner​ has you pointed in the right direction for how things normally work. If the rumors are to believed, there may be a new major release of Lightroom at the end of October.

[itekiti]

I always transfer pictures from camera to HDD, then i convert them to DNG.

[itekiti]

Transfer again from camera and convert to DNG and it looks ok... hmmm....

[Todd Shaner]

Then these are the things you need to check and/or replace:

That looks like data corruption most likely due to the card reader, USB cable, or system memory.

The other possibility is the memory card may be failing, but that symptom is generally permanent corrupted image files.

[seungyongk90815014]

If you have DNG converter installed you can also use D850 profiles in LR.

Copy all files in C:/ProgramData/Adobe/CameraRaw/CameraProfiles/Camera/Nikon D850

To C:/Users/<user-name>/AppData/Roaming/Adobe/CameraRaw/CameraProfiles.

And then restart LR. Enjoy!!!