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P: Colored "pixel" artifacts/subdued blacks in shadow areas (older Macs) (also visible on CR)

Explorer ,
Jun 14, 2023 Jun 14, 2023

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I updated LrC to 12.4 yesyerday. Since then a number of pixels in multiple colors appear appear quite often on the image, mostly in the areas of blacks/darks and when using Tone Curve commands. It's similar to the red/blue pixels which denoted clipping in the areas of blacks/whites, but they appear in very many different other colors. Sometimes they disappear, or decrease, after actioning the commands again, sometimes they do not. Is anybody else facing the same problem which I encounter now for the vey first time after many years of use of LrC? Thank you in advance for your advise.

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correct answers 1 Pinned Reply

Adobe Employee , Oct 02, 2023 Oct 02, 2023

Summary:

We can still not replicate this failure on test or production machines at Adobe. This appears to occur on Lightroom 12.4/Camera Raw 15.4 and later on very old Macs (8 Years and older) and is likely due to out-of-date video drivers on no longer-supported or updated GPUs.

The issue manifests as visual color artifacts in the Develop view only but doesn't always appear on exported images. It can also manifest as less-than-black deep shadow areas.

  • Some customers report that disabling GPU rest
...

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LEGEND ,
Oct 22, 2023 Oct 22, 2023

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@daveRedShed9UK, "This should have either been regression tested properly..."

 

I think industry dynamics prevent even a large application vendor like Adobe from thoroughly testing GPUs and driver versions to an extent necessary to catch problems like this thread that strike a very small number of older GPUs.

 

Just look at the many dozens of GPUs introduced by Nvidia, AMD, and Intel since 2015.  Even the much more constrained Mac ecosystem churned through many GPU models every year (until Apple started migrating to Apple Silicon processors a few years ago).  Consider the GPUs included in new Mac models in 2015, 2016, and 2017:

 

2015: HD Graphics 5300, HD Graphics 6000, Iris Graphics 6100, Iris Pro 5200, Iris Pro 6200, Radeon R9 M290, Radeon R9 M370X, Radeon R9 M380, Radeon R9 M390, Radeon R9 M395

 

2016: HD Graphics 515, Iris Graphics 540, Iris Graphics 550, Radeon Pro 450, Radeon Pro 455

 

2017: HD Graphics 6000, HD Graphics 615, HD Graphics 630, Iris Plus Graphics 640, Iris Plus Graphics 650, Radeon Pro 555, Radeon Pro 560, Radeon Pro 570, Radeon Pro 575, Radeon Pro 580, Radeon Pro Vega 56

 

As for drivers, Nvidia releases a new Studio driver for Windows every month, and AMD is on a similar schedule.  Apple releases a new version of Mac OS about every two months, but they provide no transparency on how often they include new GPU drivers from the manufacturers.

 

Of course, there's a lot of similarity between GPU models in an architectural family, often just differing in the number and type of cores and the amount of memory, and the drivers have a lot of shared code that spans models in a family.  But I'm guessing it's likely there are occasional driver and LR bugs triggered by small differences between models (e.g. see the People masking problem below).  In general, I think it would be very hard for Adobe QA engineers to figure out which small subset of GPUs and driver versions would give the best testing coverage.

 

Application developers don't test against the huge variety of storage hardware, but instead trust that the operating system and the hardware manufacturers will thoroughly test against industry standards. Ideally, application developers would take the same approach with GPUs and simply test against the Mac and Windows graphics APIs.  But the graphics APIs are much more complicated than disk i/o, and application developers clearly can't rely on the OS vendors and GPU manufacturers to deliver bug-free drivers (yet).

 

"...or Adobe should be clear about what is not supported by them any more in terms of legacy / deprecated platforms and acted accordingly in terms of customer contact and options"

 

I agree that Adobe could do a better job at this. They do sometimes publish help articles about emerging issues with compatibility and update minimum system requirements, but as with most things Adobe, it can take many months. For example, when Adobe discovered that People selection was crashing on Macs with Intel Iris Plus Graphics with 1.5 GB graphics memory, they published a help article about 2 months after the first reports came in, and the system requirements for LR were eventually updated to require at least 2 GB of graphics memory.

 

It wouldn't surprise me if, after completing their investigation of this thread's issue, they eventually publish another help article and/or incorporate the findings in minimum system requirements, providing an update to this thread.

 

As you pointed out, the Creative Cloud app could proactively deliver compatibility alerts to affected users as issues are discovered, rather than rely on users having to come to adobe.com after tripping over a problem.

 

In the past year, Adobe did try to have LR alert users about very old Intel graphics drivers, though I think the results of that were mixed, with false positives reported here.

 

One thing Adobe does better than most other big-corporate vendors is this forum. In comparison to Apple, Microsoft, and Quicken (all of which I use occasionally), Adobe employees engage in their "community" forum much more frequently, with official posts on emerging issues, with helping users, with squelching bogus information and promoting correct information, and providing transparency around problems and bug reports.

 

Adobe is far from perfect with this, but much better than many bigger companies.  I've learned to take with three grains of salt things published in the Apple, Microsoft, and Quicken forums, even posts by officially blessed MVPs.  Many other software vendors have dropped their forums entirely.

 

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Explorer ,
Oct 19, 2023 Oct 19, 2023

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This is just wild speculation; why are you so reticent to blame Adobe?  Unless you work at Adobe and you've debugged this issue and found the API call returning unexpected values or corrupting the frame buffer, or you know somebody at Adobe who has and they've shared this non-public information, you're guessing, making this up, assuming.

The facts that we know are: Adobe made a change in 12.4 and previously working GPU support broke.  How about we just stick with the facts?  Wherever the fault lies though, it's entirely within Adobe's control to resolve the issue, and given that there are people paying a never ending monthly fee, it's not unreasonable to expect they get something for that money.  Speculating about the drivers is a distracting whataboutism.

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LEGEND ,
Oct 22, 2023 Oct 22, 2023

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@Malcolm15C3, you've omitted several key facts:

 

- There are hundreds of posts in these forums of users fixing display and Develop issues by updating their graphics drivers.

- Of the thousands of combinations of graphics processors and drivers, just three Mac graphics processors have been reported for this problem, all eight-years old or older, and all with drivers no longer supported by AMD.

- In a similar situation, Mac and Windows users with just two AMD graphics processors reported a problem with People masking starting with 12.2.1, and upgrading to the latest graphics driver (Windows) or Mac OS 14 fixed the issue.

 

Of course, it's possible that LR is buggy and is executing a different code path for just those three GPUs, perhaps incorrectly responding to valid but unusual results returned by the old drivers. 

 

But far from wild speculation, it's just simple informed judgment based on all the facts, applying Occam's Razor, to think it's much more likely a bug in old, unsupported graphics drivers. 

 

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LEGEND ,
Oct 22, 2023 Oct 22, 2023

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@Malcolm15C3, "Why are you so reticent to blame Adobe?"

 

I'm hardly reticent to point the finger at Adobe when supported by evidence. I've filed an order magnitude more public bug reports than anyone else. I've done many in-depth technical analyses of significant architectural flaws that sometimes directly contradicted public statements by Adobe engineers, including here, here,  here, here, and here.

 

I doubt the LR product team considers me Team Adobe.

 

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Explorer ,
Oct 19, 2023 Oct 19, 2023

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Ignore this.  It has returned.  It is intermittent

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New Here ,
Oct 19, 2023 Oct 19, 2023

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Ty, went to an older LR version and is fine now.  Time for a new computer soon!

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New Here ,
Oct 20, 2023 Oct 20, 2023

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Hello everyone, even though this place is intended, I hope, for Adobe technicians. I have a major and urgent issue with Lightroom that I've been carrying since version 12 - currently, I have version 13 installed on my late 2013 Mac Pro.
In the Develop module, the images appear degraded, and the blacks show up as pastel black spots. These images are not deliverable to clients!! Instead of the spots, sometimes there are cutouts similar to highlights and shadows but in various colors: red, yellow, blue, and white.
I urgently need to resolve this issue because I am a professional photographer and I'm having difficulty delivering my work. I noticed that the problem doesn't occur if I change the SETTINGS-PROCESS VERSION and select version 4.
I've tried disabling the GPU, but the issue still persists. Thinking it might be a computer problem, I restored my Mac Pro to its original settings, but the problem immediately resurfaced. Can anyone help me? Sorry for the errors... I'm Italian and don't speak English well, and I'm getting assistance from ChatGPT.

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Participant ,
Oct 20, 2023 Oct 20, 2023

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Hi Luca,

if some process version is working, why not using it and then thinking of a new Mac? A 10 year old machine is for a professional use case a much too old part ... it could fail any time.

 

Addendum: Does your Mac run "macOS Monterey (version 12.0) or later", it is from late 2021? If not then your system is out of support, see Lightroom Classic system requirements .

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New Here ,
Oct 20, 2023 Oct 20, 2023

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My mac pro is (late 2013) and was purchased in 2014/2015 if I remember correctly.
I could easily use version 4 but do I have to edit every photo? Is there a way to set it as default?

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Community Expert ,
Oct 20, 2023 Oct 20, 2023

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You can just set the process version as the default by creating a preset with the process version enabled and setting that as the default either in the preferences pane or by applying it in the import panel.

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Explorer ,
Oct 20, 2023 Oct 20, 2023

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Another post that misses the point. While we are charged monthly fees the software should be regression tested and work OR Adobe lays down an exit strategy for users on older machines. I back up regularly and have survived hardware failures. Making it the users problem is not the correct response sorry

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Explorer ,
Oct 20, 2023 Oct 20, 2023

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Also my mid 2015 MBP easily meets those requirements 

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LEGEND ,
Oct 20, 2023 Oct 20, 2023

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sometimes there are cutouts similar to highlights and shadows but in various colors: red, yellow, blue, and white.

Are your issues as shown in:

https://community.adobe.com/t5/lightroom-classic-discussions/p-artifacts-resembling-clipping-odd-col...

 

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LEGEND ,
Oct 20, 2023 Oct 20, 2023

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Participant ,
Oct 14, 2023 Oct 14, 2023

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Updatng my catalog due to the latest versin of lightroom has completely destroyed nearly 40k images in the gallery. Images are raw files and even with reset all mages appear completely overexposed and color are way out in left field showing that images are not being read correctly as they were prior to the update.  Running on Win 11 with an amd GPU, As of now I am not opening/upgrading another gallery for fear of lossing any more images. I put a lot of time into how I edit photos and as of now processing business orders is impossible with this current version. Is there a means to roll back the update to have a working version of lightroom as the original gallery is still avaiable, but unusable by the current release version of lightroom classic

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Participant ,
Oct 14, 2023 Oct 14, 2023

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OK I was able to restore a previous version and open the old gallery. There is something off either n the new color mixer from v12-v13 or the gallery update process.  Guess I wll stay at v12 forthe time being.

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Participant ,
Oct 22, 2023 Oct 22, 2023

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The overall problem is with hardware acceleration of AMD RAeon GPUs. Apparantly they need to be turned off for lightroom to show correct colors

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New Here ,
Oct 23, 2023 Oct 23, 2023

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I have a macbook pro 15 inches in 2015, Monterey
, when switching to lightroo6SWE3oOzE2U.jpg4V7A1223-Улучшено-Ум. шума.jpgm 13, a truncation of shadows and bugs appeared in the shadows, I reinstalled the system on the macbook, reinstalled the lightrum did not help, my GPU was disabled earlier because of similar errors. now it is disabled and the error does not seem to be disabled. I have a photo catalog that I've been processing for a week and now I can't display on my computer, my friends' computer displays photos of norms.
I rolled back the version to 12 and the error disappeared. what is that?

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New Here ,
Oct 25, 2023 Oct 25, 2023

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Hallo!

Ich hatt vor ein paar Tagen das neue LR Update gemacht und seither habe ich ziemliche Probleme. Und zwar sind auf allen Bildern farbige Markierungen sichtbar (siehe Youtube Video). Habe das Update wieder deinstalliert, doch das Problem tritt weiterhin auf. Erst wenn ich das Programm schliesse und wieder öffne, verschwinder der Fehler für kurze Zeit, erscheint aber nach ein paar Minuten erneut. 

 

Kann mir jemand helfen? Vielen Dank!

 

https://youtu.be/Ff1jkcWMjMo

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Community Beginner ,
Oct 27, 2023 Oct 27, 2023

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j'avais aussi des probleme d'affichage avec le 12quand j'ai oncter adobe il m'ont dit que mon mac etait trop vieux.

alors que c'etait clairment un bug car le probleme n'etait pas constant.

Capture d’écran 2023-10-27 à 18.19.50.png

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Community Beginner ,
Oct 27, 2023 Oct 27, 2023

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Quel système vous avez et quel mac?

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Explorer ,
Oct 27, 2023 Oct 27, 2023

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I want this banding off, what is it? Please help!! 

 

 

Screen Shot 2023-10-27 at 12.24.51 PM.png

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LEGEND ,
Oct 27, 2023 Oct 27, 2023

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@nealedel, please do the LR menu command Help > System Info and copy/paste the entire contents here so we can see exactly which versions of hardware and software LR thinks you're running and important LR options that are set.

 

If you're on Mac, click the Apple icon in the upper-left corner and do About This Mac. Post a full-resolution screenshot (not a phone pic) of the About window.

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Explorer ,
Oct 27, 2023 Oct 27, 2023

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Screen Shot 2023-10-27 at 3.26.37 PM.pngScreen Shot 2023-10-27 at 3.26.03 PM.pngScreen Shot 2023-10-27 at 3.25.53 PM.png

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Community Beginner ,
Oct 27, 2023 Oct 27, 2023

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Fixed the problem. Got a new MacBook 😂 my iMac was just too old for the
updates

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