P: Syncing Masks of faces with multiple people not working LR classic

[The Golfwidow]

When working in the newest Lightroom Classic with masks of multiple people, when I sync the masks across images, the masks are not finding the individual people and are all clumping onto one person.  In an image with even just 2 people in the same spots, I go to masks, let it find the people, click on each person, click to add faces for each, make sure it would be for separate masks.  Then I edit each face mask.  When I sync from one image to another, those masks don't find both people.  They layer onto one person.  What the heck is going on.  I did a screen recording of this process.   LR Masking not syncing 

PLEASE HELP!!!

Shawn

[The Golfwidow]

When working in the newest Lightroom Classic with masks of multiple people, when I sync the masks across images, the masks are not finding the individual people and are all clumping onto one person.  In an image with even just 2 people in the same spots, I go to masks, let it find the people, click on each person, click to add faces for each, make sure it would be for separate masks.  Then I edit each face mask.  When I sync from one image to another, those masks don't find both people.  They layer onto one person.  What the heck is going on.  I did a screen recording of this process.   LR Masking not syncing 

PLEASE HELP!!!

Shawn

[Rikk Flohr: Photography]

You've posted this in Lightroom Classic and Lightroom Ecosystem. You have Lightroom Classic. I am merging this with your other post. Please don't make duplicate posts.

Thank you. 

[The Golfwidow]

Rikk, I did not mean to post in 2 places.  I realized after posting the first time I did it in the wrong place and didn't know how to correct it.  

I was really hoping someone from Adobe could actually help me with this issue.  

Shawn

[Rikk Flohr: Photography]

After watching your video and attempting to replicate, I cannot duplicate the issue you are seeing. 

Two possible corrections you might try: 

1. Reset Preferences

2. Update your video driver at your video card manufacturer's website

This procedure works for both Lightroom Classic and Lightroom Desktop.

If you are using Lightroom Desktop it can change the location of your local storage. Please review this setting after resetting preferences. 

Reset Procedure:

1. Close Lightroom.

2. Hold down [Alt/Opt]+[Shift] while restarting Lightroom.

3. Overwrite the Preferences when prompted by the dialog.

4. Close Lightroom.

5. Restart Lightroom.

[The Golfwidow]

Thank you for the advice.  Unfortunately, this did not solve the problem.  Not only is my video driver up to date, I tried resetting the preferences and this didn't work.  When syncing masks across images with multiple people it just won't find the right faces.  Even with 2 people in the image.  If I only have one person in the image, the masking and the syncing across images works great.  Anytime I have more then one person in the image, it will find the people fine, but if I sync the masks to another photo the AI doesn't update to refind the people and apply the masks.  What else might the issue be if resetting preferences doesn't work? I'm so unbelievably frustrated.  Shawn

[Rikk Flohr: Photography]

When I tested it, I tested it on a five person - image and it worked correctly, identifying person 1 -5 and pasting the correct individual masks to each across several images.

If you copy/paste instead of sync - what happens?

If you create a preset from image one and apply it to image 2 what happens?

[The Golfwidow]

I tried it both ways and it didn't work.  I've attached another screen recording and my system information.  I have a pretty robust system.  I just don't get it.  Shawn

[The Golfwidow]

Rikk also as an experiment I went back into other group photos.  I've noticed that it is a 50/50 chance of it working.  If 2 or 3 images are almost identical and there is no change in zoom or movement of any kind then the syncing of masks tends to work.  If there is any slight difference in the images such as zoomed in or out, even if people are in the same place, it doesn't work.  I also noticed that it doesn't work very well if people are close together.  Shawn

[Rikk Flohr: Photography]

A few things to note: 

1. This could be an install problem as well. You might consider doing a clean reinstall

2. This could be a video driver bug - not much help I can provide there. 

3. This could be a workflow problem where the way you are working runs against the way the software works. A couple of items here: With a video that shows you creating the masks from scratch and then transferring them to another image where the transfer fails similarly to your first video, we might be able to spot the problem. Without watching how you create masks and the two images involved, it is tough to tell exactly what is happening. 

The next item is understanding the logic of how Person 1, Person 2, etc is selected by the models. Selection of who is Person 1 is best understood like rows and columns. The farther a person is to the top and left increases their chance of being designated Person 1 then moving across and then down, and across, to determine the # of the person. Looking at your images that fail with that knowledge it may reveal that person 1 has really shifted to a different person in the synced image. In general masks transfered across images work best when people count remains the same  between images and position doesn't change very much. It doesn't know that Sally is this person and she has moved... if you get my meaning.  

[The Golfwidow]

Rikk I wanted to first say thank you so much for helping me try to navigate this problem.  I really appreciate it.  You mentioned my workflow and how I create the masks and apply them etc.  So I did a screen recording of me doing this. I used different images of just 3 people in almost the exact same spot.  I've applied no edits to the images other than creating the masks. You will see how I create the masks using the detect people option, selecting their face skin, creating 3 separate masks.  I then apply some edits to each.  I then sync that image to 2 different images both of which are identical to the first.  It works good on the first synced image, but on the 2nd all the masks get applied to one person.  It is so frustrating.  It really is a hit and miss for me. I get your explanation of how the people are selected, so if I have 3 images where they are in the exact same spot then it should sync properly.

If I was to do a clean install, how does that work?  Do I just uninstall from creative cloud desktop or do I need to do something else first?  I imagine I would also have to redo my preferences again?  What a pain in the ass lol!  Shawn

Like I mentioned before if I only have one person the syncing masks works perfectly.

[Rikk Flohr: Photography]

The clean install process goes like this: 

Clean Lightroom Install Procedure

Close Lightroom

Restart the computer

Use the Adobe Creative Cloud App to uninstall Lightroom

Restart the computer

Install Lightroom via the Creative Cloud App without launching any other programs.

Restart the computer

Launch Lightroom

Wait 5 minutes

[The Golfwidow]

Rikk, thanks.  I will try to do the clean install over the weekend.  Swamped with editing senior sessions so need to wait till I have some time.  Was hoping to do this as a last effort.  Hopefully it works.  Don't know if you saw my latest screen recording of how I created the masks.  Did that give you any insight if I was not doing something correct?  Thanks so much! Shawn

[Rikk Flohr: Photography]

One additional thing we can try if you are willing. 

Send me the three files. 

The first file should be exported as a DNG with your edits included. 

The second two files should be exported as Original without their edits included.

I can attempt to Sync/Copy/Paste/Preset and see if my results and yours are the same. 

The forum won't allow you to attach them but if you could upload them to Creative Cloud Folders, Dropbox or similar, and then post a link. I would give it a test to see if there is something specific about your images. 

[The Golfwidow]

Rikk, I'll work on getting those uploaded to dropbox today.  Question, I shoot in jpeg and am wondering if maybe that could be a reason it isn't working correctly.  I've tried this on several different sessions with multiple people and it is always a 50/50 chance of working.  Just wondering if maybe the jpeg file is the reason?  When you say export as original, do you mean just uploading my files straight off computer from camera?  I can export the one as a dng with edits.  Shawn

[The Golfwidow]

Rikki, I've uploaded the files per your request to dropbox.  The DNG file looks absolutely horrible in dropbox.  Doesn't look that way on my computer.  Not sure why.  https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/y7plmpflghqwd39gb0lfr/h?dl=0&rlkey=qmfqr5o5bv20twikzec4ksr4w Shawn

[C.Cella]

@The Golfwidow 

I downloaded the photos and for me as well the "face selection" can end up selecting only one subject (the woman on the left) after a sync.

What is most weird is that for some photos separate selection will be created correctly after the sync.

For instance I created new face selection in photo 0040 but after syncing and replacing to all the other images the separate selection were created only in 2 photos (0043, 0042)

When I created anew the face selections in photo 0043 (I deleted all mask before doing it) the masks were correctly synced and generated separate selections ONLY in some photos and not even not even photo 0040.

It's hard to spot pattern here.

Going into more technical detail for some reasonLrCC is re-using the same MaskDigest for several mask BUT only in certain photos and not others.

Veryy simply LrC shouldl always create new MaskDigest but somehowo, maybe to save time, it's not doing it.

[The Golfwidow]

C.Cella I'm so glad you were able to replicate my issue.  I have gone back through and tried with other group photos I've done over the last several months and again it is a 50/50 on whether the sync will work properly with the masks.  Short of doing a new install, I did reset preferences, made sure my video graphics driver is up to date (I have a pretty robust newere computer system) and tried to do some testing.  If there is only 1 person in the photo, the syncing of masks works like a charm, but anytime there is multiple people in exactly the same spot looking forward the sync doesn't work properly half the time.  There is no reasoning.  I've even had it work on a photo, then deleted the masks and tried again for it to fail to sync properly on the photo that had just worked.  

Given that you are able to replicate makes me wonder if there is a bug in the system that may only be effecting some people? I'm wondering if I need to roll back to the previous version 12.2.1 and see if that fixes it?  Thanks for looking into this!  Shawn

[C.Cella]

It is more likely photo dependant

I also made a small mistake in my previous post (I corrected it now): it is the crs:MaskDigest that is the same for all mask while it should not be the case.

Very simply in your case two different mask (with different names) have the same MaskDigest

Case at hand:

MaskDigest = "D0BAD78648EF19FCCB95429ABE24FA0A",
MaskName = "Person 3 - Facial Skin",

MaskDigest = "D0BAD78648EF19FCCB95429ABE24FA0A",
MaskName = "Person 4 - Facial Skin",

.

[C.Cella]

I tired and none of the absurd workaround we must use to trigger a refresh of the Ai on demand work or produce the expected results.

The only solution is to create new mask for every differet person in every photo.

[The Golfwidow]

I agree it is a pain in the butt.  I feel like at least it isn't just me now.  I thought I was going crazy and there was something wrong with the way I was doing it or my Lightroom.  Hopefully they can look into this and get it fixed!  Shawn

[The Golfwidow]

BTW what are the workarounds that can be used to trigger a refresh of the AI?  Shawn

[C.Cella]

Workaround to Update Ai "on demand" is to :

Select photo(s)

Filip vertically

Update Ai

Flip again

Update Ai

Adobe has refused to give users the ability to update Ai at any time so we must do this.

[The Golfwidow]

@C.Cella thanks for the information.  I'm hoping they will see this from others and it will trigger them to put in a bug fix! Shawn

[C.Cella]

The situation is complex with mask.

These are two Facial Skin masks as LrC created them:

MaskDigest = "78B12A300883202D2E27F8445DDC492B",
MaskID = "8B702A64-9191-49A6-8D08-F2B6A10FDB79",
MaskName = "Person 1 - Facial Skin",
MaskSyncID = "83FBA53691C65D4CBB4304E1515E4565",

MaskDigest = "8C40CB990A3906DBB08D6E09C81A73B7",
MaskID = "EF882ED1-404E-47C9-9A85-5B7C716DE494",
MaskName = "Person 3 - Facial Skin",
MaskSyncID = "79AF9D143F16854BB29B048DE0899D72",

The only thing that matters to LrC when copying/syncing settings are the MaskID and MaskSyncID, the rest is not important.

Also LrC is re-using the MaskDigest to save time.

e.g

Create Person 1-Facial Skin

On the same photo LrC will reuse the existing MaskDigest when you create another Person 1-Facial Skin,  it will not re-analyze the image.

YOUR ISSUE  might be a case of  LrC creating the first MaskDigest for Person 1-Facial Skin (woman on the left) and re-use that MaskDigest it for all the other masks (Person 2-Facial Skin, Person 3 - Facial Skin, Person 4 - Facial Skin)

Why is LrC doing so is beyond me.

.