RAW flat profiled photos turn oversaturated and overcontrasted after loading!

[roman koval]

All of a sudden few seconds after import my photos become oversaturated and overcontrasted. I've only met with this problem a week ago, prior to that i have successfully edited raw CR2 photos and since then i havn't touched any settings. The first screenshot shows the library tab and how the raw files look, i couldn't take a screenshot of flat picture on 'loading' stage in develop tab as it takes less than a second for it to change into oversaturated picture shown in 2nd screenshot. I have tried opening raw files in  InfanView for a test and it showed the flat profiled raw image but when i go to develop tab , after couple seconds the flat image changes to oversaturated version. As you see on the second screenshot all of the sliders are at 0 and same goes for the import presets. I went through many forums and gathered no answer but many similar or exactly the same help requests. I heard other users suggest to adjust the sliders to what looks close to raw flat profile and save it as a import preset, BUT not only adjustments of contrast and saturation sliders doesn't give the correct flat image but it also doesn't allow fully use the durability RAW files give when color grading! Any help will be greatly appreciated.

[Dave Merchant]

The initial image you see is the JPG preview, which may have an in-camera profile applied.

Lightroom / Camera Raw has never simply opened a raw photo "as is" - it always does some adjustments, most of which are undocumented, which is why it's such a nightmare to use Adobe software for DNG-based video footage. Back in the days of the 2010 process version you could re-zero all the sliders to remove most of what Adobe does, but in the current versions "zero" does not mean zero.

Frankly, if you want to work from a completely uncorrected start point (debayered and BP scaled, nothing more), you'll have to use another brand of software. Same goes for working in 32-bit HDR - Adobe's implementation has been broken for years.

[Per Berntsen]

The way I understand your post, this is not about the jpg preview displaying briefly before the image is rendered, but about a difference in saturation between Library and Develop. Such differences are usually caused by a defective or incompatible monitor profile.

Since you're on Windows 10, and this happened all of a sudden, there was probably a Windows update that installed a bogus monitor profile.

Try setting the monitor profile to sRGB (use Adobe RGB if you have a wide gamut monitor).

If this fixes the issue, you should ideally calibrate your monitor with a hardware calibrator.

Go to Control panel > Color management, and first of all make sure that Use my settings for this device is checked.

Then add the sRGB profile, and set it as default.

You must restart Lightroom so that it can become aware of the new monitor profile.

[roman koval]

its not the difference between develop and library tabs which is the problem, its the flicker that makes the raw flat files oversaturate with no documentation taht would let me change it back or adjust not to make changes to the initial flat RAW file. Here is the video of a oversaturation occuring in develope tab , the proble is mst noticable at 00:23 0f the video. Also i set  color profile to sRGB, unfortunately didn't resolved the problem.

[Per Berntsen]

Try to disable the GPU.

Go to Edit > Preferences > Performance, and uncheck Use graphics processor.

If this fixes the problem, update your graphics driver, which may allow you to work with the GPU turned on.

[roman koval]

didn't fix it, the delay time before image goes oversaturated just went a little bit longer. Which i guess means its to do with the LR itself.

[Dave Merchant]

That flickering is the preview loading issue I described earlier - LR makes previews using the embedded JPG in a raw file where it exists, and displays that preview while it reads the raw data from disc. If you shot with a flat camera profile then the previews will include that profile, but the raw files do not - they do usually include the profile name as part of the header information, but LR doesn't understand that.

Same thing happens if you shoot in "B+W mode" on a color camera - the previews are B+W, the raw file is not. Useful if you change your mind, not useful if you want exactly the same image on screen.

As to disabling or reversing LR's attempts at making the image "pretty", in short you can't. That's why scientific photographers use other software.

[roman koval]

I know that RAW files come with the imbeded jpeg thats used in camera lcd screen and the lightroom preview but, if what i see on a stage of loading is a jpeg then it would be more saturated and contrast than the raw that loads after a while. In my case its other way round since the preview shows me a correct flat image and only then it becomes oversaturated,which is the opposite of what raw should look like. And also this problem has only came around a week ago , i have worked with LR for over a year now and had no problem with RAW files being flat , until very recently.

[Just Shoot Me]

As stated the initial preview you are seeing in the Library module is from the Embedded JPG image included in all RAW files.

It is noted by the icon in the upper left hand corner of the Grid View thumbnail by 2 arrows facing right and left.

That preview is controlled by the In Camera settings and not what the RAW sensor data might be.

When switching to the Develop module LR then builds its own Preview from the actual RAW sensor data.

[roman koval]

How can the RAW be more saturated than the JPG? In my understanding the RAW file is flat, also i use a flat profile ,

CineStyle 0, -4, 0, 0.

[Just Shoot Me]

https://forums.adobe.com/people/roman+koval  wrote

How can the RAW be more saturated than the JPG? In my understanding the RAW file is flat, also i use a flat profile ,

CineStyle 0, -4, 0, 0.

If you have the camera set to make the JPG low in saturation the RAW sensor data will "LOOK" over saturated.

Also it could be from an import preset.

LR normally creates it's own previews of imported images for display in the library module. You have selected to use the Embedded JPG as the preview, that is an option in the import dialog.

Try starting a new, TEST, catalog and import those same images without the option to us the Embedded JPG as the preview and see what you get when LR creates its own display preview. If it looks similar to the RAW image displayed in the Develop module then you have your answer. IE the camera is set to a low saturation for JPG images.

[Just Shoot Me]

https://forums.adobe.com/people/roman+koval  wrote

How can the RAW be more saturated than the JPG? In my understanding the RAW file is flat, also i use a flat profile ,

CineStyle 0, -4, 0, 0.

In Camera Profiles are NOT used by the RAW Sensor data. At least not in LR. They might be used with the RAW data in the Canon software but with all other RAW converters, Editors, it is not.

[Per Berntsen · Accepted solution]

https://forums.adobe.com/people/Just%20Shoot%20Me  is right.

You have chosen to use the embedded jpgs for Library previews rather than letting LR generate its own previews.

Under File handling > Previews in the Import dialog, choose Standard instead of Embedded & Sidecar.

Doing so will result in identical previews in Library and Develop.

In my understanding the RAW file is flat, also i use a flat profile , CineStyle 0, -4, 0, 0.

The profile you set in the camera only affects the embedded jpg preview – Lightroom cannot read this profile and ignores it.

A raw file isn't necessarily flat, it is open to interpretation, and there is no "correct" way to render a raw file.

By default, Lightroom uses the Adobe Color camera profile when rendering, but there are several profiles to choose from (top of the Basic panel in Develop). The one that probably comes closest to CineStyle 0, -4, 0, 0 is Adobe Netutral.

To set this profile as default for all files from your camera, open a file in Develop, do not do any edits, but set the camera profile to Adobe Neutral. Now go to Develop > Set default settings, and choose Update to current settings. The Neutral profile will now be used for every image you import from this camera.

[roman koval]

So far i changed the embedded to standart, which has made everything oversaturated and overcontrasted,

I will get to the second part of your suggestion, there is one thing i want to ask before trying. I had the same camera settings but my CR2 RAW files were flat, and i was happy with that , because thats exactly what i needed, what im trying to achive is the C-Log, so what happened now, why are my previously flat images are now oversaturated?

[Just Shoot Me]

Then you may of set a different Default profile than what you were using before. In the same instructions as given by Per Berntsen in the dialog box that comes up to change the LR defaults for your camera you can select "Reset Adobe Default Settings". That will take LR back to whatever Adobe has set as the default Profile used for that camera.

This will  not affect already imported images. For those you have to do the reset manually. It only affects new imported images.

[Just Shoot Me]

https://forums.adobe.com/people/roman+koval  wrote

So far i changed the embedded to standart, which has made everything oversaturated and overcontrasted,

It has not set everything over saturated and over contrasted. It is how the camera sensor see your subjects and whatever default profile you have assigned, or what Adobe has assigned, as the default for that model camera.

As stated above by me and Per Berntsen the Default Profile that LR uses when importing images can be changed.

[roman koval]

So i guess this is as good as it gets, with the cinestyle on the left and adobe neutral on the right...

[martin-s]

Just out of interest, why would you want to develop your still images using profiles intended for *video work*?

It seems you're creating unnecessary work for yourself, since you will have to add a lot of saturation and contrast back in again to arrive at a pleasant result.

In my experience Camera Neutral or now Adobe Neutral are much better starting points. The extremely flat profiles are good for capture and checking for clipping. They're not a good choice for development.

[roman koval]

To me personally flat profiles give more creative freedom and i don't like the oversaturation since a lot of starting photographers think it automatically makes their photo look better quality. Also at the moment im editing photos for a hyperlapse so even though im working with still images they will come into video.

[martin-s]

Fair enough.

I see profiles as a shortcut that get's you near the desired end result and then you do some tweaking on top of that.

I found this post that might interest you. There's a video at the end on how to create your own profiles.

All About Profiles: How Profiles Work and Making Your Own

[Jao vdL]

So far i changed the embedded to standart, which has made everything oversaturated and overcontrasted, I had the same camera settings but my CR2 RAW files were flat, and i was happy with that , because thats exactly what i needed, what im trying to achive is the C-Log, so what happened now, why are my previously flat images are now oversaturated?

Adobe somewhere in the 7.x timeframe changed the default profile to Adobe Color which is much more saturated than the profile that was the standard before. There were lots (hundreds is no exaggeration) of complaints on how after loading people's beautiful colors disappeared and turned flat and people had no clue you could just choose "camera standard" to get them back.

Just set your default profile to one of the flat profiles and you will have the flat renderings back.