Support for Nikon D750

[John_jcb]

What is the normal lead time for a new camera such as the Nikon D750 to be available in LR5?

[Exodus_Maximus]

hahah - nice - way to divert from the fact that your only knowledge about the subject is coming from what others told you... I will be back with the test results once the D750 NEF support is in LR 5... lol - priceless (ask yourself a question who benefits the most from DNG  - not customers (that is what companies will want you to think) - it is companies who will save millions not having to create support to new nefs and other raw formats if DNG would de facto become a unified standard - they are trying to use public to see if they can try to force manufacturers to submit for their demands for the unified format witch benefits THEM  (do I have to say who "they" are?) - I have never seen any issue with waiting for the support of the new format in PS or LR - btw, trying to use big words will not make you sound smarter - I did read plenty of Dean Koontz novels to know what a truly refined language sounds like...

[Butch_M]

Exodus.Maximus wrote:

hahah - nice - way to divert from the fact that your only knowledge about the subject is coming from what others told you... I will be back with the test results once the D750 NEF support is in LR 5... lol - priceless (ask yourself a question who benefits the most from DNG  - not customers (that is what companies will want you to think) - it is companies who will save millions not having to create support to new nefs and other raw formats if DNG would de facto become a unified standard - they are trying to use public to see if they can try to force manufacturers to submit for their demands for the unified format witch benefits THEM  (do I have to say who "they" are?) - I have never seen any issue with waiting for the support of the new format in PS or LR

Yep ... I only know what others have told me. Just like you want me to buy the pig-in-a-poke you are trying to sell me.

I could list the names of the folks who told me about RAW, DNG and the nuts and bolts of digital photography (the likes of Rodney, Schewe, Fraser, Reichmann and many others) ... unfortunately I don't ever recall even an obscure blog post by any Mr. Maximus ...

[Exodus_Maximus]

btw - everyone can read Wikipedia - truth is that those "extra extensions" contain additional data points which are used to represent CIS captured image data - DNG is GENERIC! Think about it - Nikon D750 CIS is different than Nikon 5D MKIII CIS - they will have unique data points representing captured image - to "fit them" in the generic DNG format data has to be either omitted or translated into a generic data point (using "give me best guess" technique) - is it pretty darn close? YES! is it exact? NO! and these days where people complain about AA filters on the CIS everything matters to distance a company from the competition - that's why HIGH End DSLR's will NEVER adopt DNG as their PRIMARY format - they may include it as an option, but they will continue with their proprietary formats....

[Jao vdL]

Exodus.Maximus wrote:

btw - everyone can read Wikipedia - truth is that those "extra extensions" contain additional data points which are used to represent CIS captured image data - DNG is GENERIC! Think about it - Nikon D750 CIS is different than Nikon 5D MKIII CIS - they will have unique data points representing captured image - to "fit them" in the generic DNG format data has to be either omitted or translated into a generic data point (using "give me best guess" technique) - is it pretty darn close? YES! is it exact? NO! and these days where people complain about AA filters on the CIS everything matters to distance a company from the competition - that's why HIGH End DSLR's will NEVER adopt DNG as their PRIMARY format - they may include it as an option, but they will continue with their proprietary formats....

I am sorry but you are wrong. DNG is bit-for-bit identical. There is no loss whatsoever. There is no magic sauce in nef. It is just a plain linear greyscale tif file with some metadata and some compression applied. Conversion to dng does NOT do a best guess or give generic data points. It just copies the data over and applies a different lossless compression algorithm. All the included metadata from the original file is also copied over. Nothing is thrown away. That is all. The original Bayer mosaiced data is completely intact. Your example only shows a difference in default noise reduction differences between capture NX and Lightroom and probably you did not use the camera matching profile you should use to get the same color rendering as Nikon's. The example does not show a loss in info in the file. Different raw engines will give different default results for the same file. That is what you are showing. Nothing to do with nef vs dng. There is absolutely no reason for camera makers to not use dng or another open raw format except for locking costumers into their raw software.

try underexposed or over exposed image - or an image with high ISO - as I said - DNG comes pretty close but NOT exact... once again - "based on" does NOT equal "the same"

No, dng is an exact lossless conversion. Over or under exposed. It makes no difference whatsoever. Results from nef are identical to results from dng as long as you use the same raw engine. My example above was underexposed by 4 stops and I dialed in a +4 exposure correction in Lightroom for both the nef and the dng! No difference in noise between the nef and dng as well as the Nikon conversion. The rendering is even almost identical between Lightroom and Capture because I used the camera standard profile in Lightroom, which is my default (I don't like Adobe's standard profiles). I did the underexposure to get the sky (outside of the screenshot) not overexposed.

[Exodus_Maximus]

please stop - you are telling me that DNG can "bit for bit" capture CIS specific data? Are you trying to tell me that DNG can with 100% accuracy capture data from Nikon D750 and Canon 5D MKIII? with no data loss whatsoever? ok, yes master - I am sorry master.... lol

[Jao vdL]

please stop - you are telling me that DNG can "bit for bit" capture CIS specific data? Are you trying to tell me that DNG can with 100% accuracy capture data from Nikon D750 and Canon 5D MKIII? with no data loss whatsoever? ok, yes master - I am sorry master.... lol

Yes indeed. It is 100% identical. dng was designed as an archival format for raw sensor data. It's designed to be lossless. The conversion simply copies over the original Bayer mosaiced sensor data into the dng file. No conversion or resampling is done except for a lossless recompression.

btw - you know that visible (displayed to user) metadata is not representation of entire data set, right? The metadata you see is a capture specific metadata - tells you all about how the picture was taken... - I'm done with this - got to love "Wikipedia" experts....

All the proprietary extra metadata in the nef file is actually copied verbatim into the dng file. The important stuff such as exposure settings, lens data, gps, etc. are put into the relevant fields in the dng fields in addition to that. The only downside to dng is that capture NXD or View NX won't open the file anymore. There is no hidden extra data in a nef file that only Nikon knows about. There is only camera info, camera settings metadata, a jpeg preview, and the sensor data in the already mentioned tiff field. There is nothing else in these files.

lets do this test again once LR has a NEF support for the D750, shall we? - I even will use the same NEF I used in my previous test

What's the point? the dng from a D750 will be identical to the original nef when rendered by the same raw conversion engine. I am happy to do it but you won't see a difference since there simply cannot be a difference.

[Exodus_Maximus]

"Yes indeed. It is 100% identical. dng was designed as an archival format for raw sensor data. It's designed to be lossless" - yes *sarcasm*), and that's why when converting into DNG you have an option to embed original RAW file into it.... lol - I am done with this, really - if you would know anything you are talking about (from practice and not Wikipedia) you would know that it is impossible to translate a format specific data (specially when CIS are different from one another) into a generic file format with no data loss - simply impossible - 3-4 weeks from now I will get back to this post with the tests results (DNG vs original NEF from the test I did present above) - until then I have better things to do with my time than to argue with someone who can attribute his entire knowledge set about the subject to Wikipedia etc.

[Exodus_Maximus]

btw - you know that visible (displayed to user) metadata is not representation of entire data set, right? The metadata you see is a capture specific metadata - tells you all about how the picture was taken... - I'm done with this - got to love "Wikipedia" experts....

[Exodus_Maximus]

"No, dng is an exact lossless conversion. Over or under exposed. It makes no difference whatsoever. Results from nef are identical to results from dng as long as you use the same raw engine. My example above was underexposed by 4 stops and I dialed in a +4 exposure correction in Lightroom for both the nef and the dng! No difference in noise between the nef and dng as well as the Nikon conversion. The rendering is even almost identical between Lightroom and Capture because I used the camera standard profile in Lightroom, which is my default (I don't like Adobe's standard profiles). I did the underexposure to get the sky (outside of the screenshot) not overexposed." - lets do this test again once LR has a NEF support for the D750, shall we? - I even will use the same NEF I used in my previous test

[Exodus_Maximus]

furthermore - if you would follow DNG development it was started EXACTLY so the camera support would be available with out support for a specific RAW file (even if the specific camera profile will not be available) - maybe you should read more before "assuming" anything

[Keith Reeder]

Exodus.Maximus wrote:

Camera manufacturers disclose the RAW architecture as soon as they can (with out giving up the release too soon for the competition)

Hah! They so do not do that!

[NikonD750]

Thx for all the above advice - will shoot jpeg and raw and convert the single nef files to tiff that is really needed for the moment and wait till the new release arrive.  Think the Nikon D750 camera is awesome with faster focus, tilt screen and wi-fi. If you receive any more info - please share with us in South Africa.

[ssprengel]

If you look at my reply from above yours, you'll see that Adobe has released ACR 8.7 RC and DNG Converter 8.7 RC that you can use to convert your NEFs to DNGs and process them as raw files in Lightroom.

[NikonD750]

Converting raw into dng is that quicker than into tiff and is the size of
dng smaller than tiff.   I am not familiar with this and will appreciate your imput here.  Thx for all the advice.

[ssprengel]

You can test this for yourself. My impression would be Yes, because DNGs still contain the raw data, just with a wrapper that contains the camera profile so the older LR can deal with them, so this would be smaller than a TIF.

[NikonD750]

How do I get this converter to work - have downloaded it.  Does it work through NX 2?  Please help!

[NikonD750]

Hi thank you - how do I get this converter working after downloading it?  Please help.

[RikkFlohr]

Camera Raw: How to use Adobe DNG Converter - YouTube

[ssprengel]

The DNG Converter is a standalone application. You should run what you downloaded to install the DNG Converter, then run what is installed, navigate to the folder with your NEFs, but don’t double-click into the folder, just single-click the name then Select or Ok, whatever the button says, and then choose Convert. After the DNG Converter has processed the images, the DNGs can be imported into LR.

[NikonD750]

After the download and clicking it - it installed and said finished, but did not open a screen for the conversion.  If I click on the download again it just want to reinstall and open no windows after that.  Wow I feel so stupid and therefore ask help from you guys.  Thank you for assisting me.

[dj_paige]

When you install the program, it should create an icon that you have to double-click on to run the program, just like any other program. If you are a Windows user, you should also find that icon for the program in your start menu (and possibly other places as well). Once you find that icon (not the installer file you downloaded) and double-click on it, (or just select it from the Start Menu) you can follow ssprengel's instructions in message 60 in this thread.

[NikonD750]

Hi

I installed it (multiple tries), but no icon is created on the desktop or in programs (running Win 8.1). Where does it install to so that I can manually add a shortcut on my desktop?

Thank you

Regards

Marleen

[ssprengel]

When you install the DNG Converter at the end of the install process the Adobe folder is opened with the executable in it.  There is no icon created on the desktop but you can right-click Create Shortcut and drag-and-drop the icon onto the desktop if you want.  Also you can likely find the program by searching on the Win 8.1 start menu tile page.

[NikonD750]

Hi

It does not open the folder with the files. It installs and ends with this screen:

When I click Finish, everything closes.

Regards

Sunette

[littlechels]

All my programs work like normal now.  I don't use the update as a separate program, it's just an update to my camera raw/bridge and the files are now viewable/editable.  It's an  update, not a separate program.... Granted a bit slow