P: Introducing the Project Indigo camera app

[Rikk Flohr: Photography]

This post applies to the Project Indigo iOS camera app. 

Adobe Labs is excited to share an early look at Project Indigo, an iPhone camera app we've started to develop, to get feedback from the photography community. The app offers full manual controls, a more natural ("SLR-like") look, and high image quality in both JPEG and raw formats. It also introduces some new photographic experiences not available in other camera apps. For more information on the underlying technology, please refer to this Project Indigo blog post.

Before you start with Project Indigo 

• We recommend using Project Indigo on iPhone 15 Pro/Pro Max or newer devices.
  (Also supported are 12 Pro/Pro Max, 13 Pro/Pro Max, and all 14-series devices.)

• You should have at least 1GB of storage space left for the app, the downloadable AI Models inside the app, and for captured photos. 

• Download the app from the App Store. 
• Check out the Project Indigo FAQ, which is updated regularly with new explanations. 

Recipes for success when using Project Indigo 

To get the maximum out of your images captured with the app, follow these guidelines: 

• When reviewing the results, focus on Project Indigo's more natural look (in both SDR and HDR). If you haven’t done this before, try viewing the images on your laptop or desktop device, preferably on an HDR screen. 

• Capture with both JPEG and raw DNGs with file saving enabled. Project Indigo produces computational photography DNG files, which have the same natural look as JPEG images, but much more latitude for editing after capture. 

• Take control of the camera with the built-in Pro Controls, including controls that are exclusive to a computational camera: Frames to Merge and Merge Method. These may be intimidating for beginners, but with Project Indigo, you can try them for free, and nothing will break—you can always reset the settings to ‘Auto’ and let the camera take back control. 

• Go to the Indigo Labs page and play with the latest innovations our team can offer. These are only available on mobile via Indigo! 

• Be patient! Project Indigo is doing a lot of heavy lifting under the hood, and it will reward you with great photos. In return, it may ask you for a bit of time to set up captures when needed, and to wait a few seconds for the image processing to finish. 

Sending feedback 

Please try the app and share feedback in this community forum thread. If you report a problem you encountered, it would help to include details like which device you are running Project Indigo on, what kind of scene you were trying to capture, what you were trying to achieve with the camera, and as much information as possible about what you like or do not like about the resulting photo quality. Our team will continually monitor this thread to track issues and improve future experiences.  

To improve the performance and results of Project Indigo, it is important that examples of images that do not meet your expectations are forwarded to the team via your report.  A large variety of file formats are allowed as attachments in these forum posts. The best option is to attach your image's raw file directly to your feedback post. Note that there is a 50 MB limit on an attachment's file size. If your raw file is too large to attach, the best option is to share the file via a file-sharing service (Dropbox or similar) and then share the link in your feedback post. Thank you for continuing to provide feedback on the Project Indigo camera! 

Boris Ajdin: Product Manager, NextCam 
 
Posted by: 

[gregbenz]

It should not look dark when exported as a gain map even if that image is not well handled (ie SDR display or a browser which does not understand gain maps). That would be true either using any version of LR or my Web Sharp Pro Plugin to create the gain map. It should be true for the native JPG capture from Indigo as well (assuming proper exposure of the image).

Unclear what software you are using to view the image after export. Gain maps are very safe and shouldn't really be an issue anywhere.

That said, try using the Adobe Gain Map Demo app to review the output. You can view the full image (adaptive) and SDR (base image) using the radio toggles on the right side of the app. It's a free app and very helpful for diagnosing whether you have an issue in the image you captured / created, or if there is some problem occuring with other software transcoding / decoding it. https://helpx.adobe.com/camera-raw/using/gain-map.html#resources 

[nhan_8084]

@gregbenz I have tagged you in the post I mentioned about the dark image of the moon.  The image was dark from viewing in google photos, or native apple photos app.  I believe there's a confusion between the software you are telling me to try to use versus what I have used since I am completely mobile, while the app you mentioned are for use on desktop or laptop.  That's why I was wondering if there was limitation of light room mobile when exporting the jpeg from the raw (not including gainmap).  I know editing raws professionally has always been favored to be done via desktop, laptop and a calibrated monitor but I am always a fan of doing everything on the mobile phone.  Hopefully this can be relayed to the lightroom mobile team for a future update to allow gainmap saving?

[gregbenz]

A mobile-only workflow is fine. But I do recommend using that desktop demo app, as it is very helpful for troubleshooting and learning.

Lr mobile will save JPG gain maps, that works now. Use the "export as" workflow (you'll find "HDR output" under "more options"). You can use this for both JPG and AVIF (other HDR formats work well too, but aren't so widely supported in browsers that I would use them now).

[nhan_8084]

@gregbenz I do see the hdr output export now, it was defaulted to on once hdr edit is enabled.  Allow me to post screen shot of the 25x moon shot this time I did two days ago.  While in the HDR edit mode of lightroom mobile, the moon looks properly exposed and is amazing.  Once I toggle preview in SDR that is how my output jpeg looks once I select export to jpeg with HDR!  That is what is bothering me.  The final image is now dark and doesn't have HDR in it or the gainmap to display properly even when viewing on the phone through google photos AFTER exporting with HDR!   I can only get the proper image seen in jpeg if I disable hdr edit.

[gregbenz]

@nhan_8084 If the HDR looks good with your edits, and then the "preview for SDR" has been edited to look good, the final JPG with gain map will show those 2 exact results (or something in-between if the display supports limited HDR). What you are reporting is a function of how you edit the image (the software is working as expected), there's just a the learning curve. I recommend comparing the HDR edit / SDR preview against the Adobe gain map demo app for your own education.

[nhan_8084]

@gregbenz see that's the thing, the HDR doesn't look good in the final jpeg export.  It only looks good in the edit window in lightroom mobile as I showed.  I am not in disagreement with the gain map values not being there, but something is not making sense of why toggling on HDR edit, saving as HDR makes the image darker when view with a HDR capable device (the phone screen) vs HDR edit off and saving normal jpeg, showing proper exposure and hdr looks.  It seems reversed wouldn't you say?  If you export HDR, the moon would have that pop in brightness like UltraHDR of Google's camera app.

[gregbenz]

@nhan_8084 When I edit your DNG only in LR mobile on iOS, I see the exported JPG gain map is an exact match to my edit. It works as expected. Your issue is either in your edit, export settings, or a limitation of the software/hardware you are using to view the export.

If you see the image look dark, you are probably just viewing in an app which does not support Adobe's gain map encoding (which uses the ISO standard) and are therefore viewing the SDR base image. That would be a problem in your viewer. The Adobe software is working as expected.

It is important to be explicit as to how you are viewing as each viewer has unique capabilities and may respond differently to different images (as there are many different HDR encodings). There is enormous complexity here, and it doesn't simply work or not work - the details matter (which operating system, application, versions, and encoding of the image).

I see the iOS 26 Photos app properly renders the image exported from the latest LR on iOS. I believe support for this encoding is new in v26 and you may simply not yet have decoder support (I no longer have iOS v15 to test, but I don't assume it will work there and this may simply be a case where updating to the public iOS beta or waiting for the fall release resolves what you are seeing).

[nhan_8084]

The current viewer I am using is Google Photos and native Apple photos app on iOS 15.  I have not yet moved to iOS 26 beta so that might be the pivotal move.  It's odd though that google photos isn't adapted to adobe but the ultraHDR from google camera works fine, and also the native hdr of stock jpeg also shows in the Apple photos app.  Hopefully either google fixes this or adobe to be universal across the board.

[Andrii_s]

Hi @gregbenz. I can corroborate that the mentioned issue with SDR format exists. In fact, although I find Project Indigo truly astonishing, the app that I've been waiting for for many years, this issue is the most disappointing part currently. The thing is that SDR look of the photo (simple JPG output) is not consistent with HDR look, it's always under/overexposed, the colors are not consistent etc. And I have to go to Lightroom and edit each photo in "SDR preview" mode, compare it with HDR look and try to bring the SDR version closer to it.

The issue isn't specific to any viewer software, it reproduces anywhere where HDR format is not available, starting from Photos app with "View Full HDR" disabled, and to any messengers/socials you would want to share it, on non-HDR PC displays - anywhere, in a word.

In my opinion this is a significant issue which can turn many users away, especially casual users who simply want to shoot good quality JPGs with realistic processing without delving into photo editing intricacies.

I think that if such large number of photo viewer apps, widely used ones, doesn't support this format properly, I'd say, some solution should be considered from Adobe's side.

Take no offense please, it's merely my layman's point of view based on my experience with the app.

[gregbenz]

@Andrii_s The SDR version of an image will always be darker than the HDR (unless improperly edited), as HDR is allowing brighter peak to show highlights correctly without clipping or compression.

But the SDR should always look nice, and that has consistently been fine for me with Lightroom - though the default result may be darker than you like and you should give specific RAW images back as feedback for Adobe if you think the default results are consistently from what a reasonable SDR version of the un-edited HDR. The default should be a reasonable result, as many may wish to directly share the image without editing in LR (or may not know how to use "preview for SDR display" or other methods to manage the SDR base image of a gain map). And the JPG gain map should certainly look good, as that is a final format and not useful if it does not look good.

[nhan_8084]

@Andrii_s thanks for confirming what I was trying to describe!  It is hard to elaborate on things when typing on a mobile screen.  The point I was trying to say was no matter what the pictures are, if you edit using lightroom mobile it will default to hdr edits and export in hdr.  However, it doesn't have the correct gainmap to be displayed anywhere that is non-hdr capable, which is vastly almost all social media sites and browsers.  However, stock hdr images will display properly on hdr and non-hdr, they will both look the same, and that's what I am trying to ask if Indigo @BorisTheBlade can do so it won't be so cumbersome for users having to edit non-hdr to be shared to social medias.

@gregbenz the SDR version (with the toggle HDR-edit to off, or SDR preview) will always look darker until you edit it properly to exposure it for viewing, but once you toggle the HDR-edit to on again or export as HDR, you come across the problem with highlights being clipped, like the moon picture I showed it being dark period regardless if HDR was exported.  While re-editing it with SDR it displayed correctly on HDR and NON-HDR screen, or viewer apps.  Sharing the photo of jpg straight from Indigo possesses no issues, it only arrives once you edit the dng using lightroom mobile.

However, if you start to edit the image in HDR-edits, and slide up shadows etc... it will still look good in HDR capable viewer app or monitor, but if you view it on non-hdr it will look like you cranked up expo by 2 stops, overexposing it and making it look evenmore HDR than what it is once you view with hdr capable viewers.

A simple experiment that you and Indigo team can do is just to edit any picture shot in lightroom mobile, on an iPhone (not desktop anything), save that jpg without touching anything in lightroom mobile save settings.  Then upload it to facebook or facebook messenger, telegram, then you will see it being way worse as intended since they aren't using HDR capable interfaces.  Then turn hdr-off, edit the exact same, save as jpg again, now it will look good regardless if u view it using hdr or non-hdr viewers.

[Andrii_s]

"Sharing the photo of jpg straight from Indigo possesses no issues, it only arrives once you edit the dng using lightroom mobile."

Hmm, then I our experiences differ somehow, and I didn't get your main point quite right if you were talking about Lightroom-edited photos.

For me the issue occurs with the JPG photos taken straight from Indigo app.

And that's the main issue for me, because I can't just, say, shoot and share, like I would expect from any camera software, I have to shoot - edit - share.

But, as well, there's the same issue with photos edited in Lightroom in HDR mode.

I just found that adjusting "SDR Settings" mitigates it in my cases, although it's a bit cumbersome cause I have to edit the same photo twice and make both versions align to certain extent.

[Andrii_s]

So, to reiterate a bit:

* Lightroom HDR export issue - it exists for me, it's a bit disappointing cause i need to edit same photo twice, but i can get a result looking good in both modes if i tweak some SDR settings and save as JPG with HDR Output switched on.

* Indigo output issue - well, that's not what I'd expect from a camera app because the photos look great in HDR but not properly processed to be displayed in SDR format and I have to turn to the Lightroom point - open photo, tweak SDR Settings... 🙂

[nhan_8084]

@Andrii_s Yes you can the dark jpg on non hdr by using the sdr settings.  It works pretty decent, the differences will be mainly the skies popping more in hdr display now.  

[Andrii_s]

Yes, I totally understand that SDR will be darker, with clipped highlights etc, for sure.

It's that I don't find the default SDR result satisfying and working for me as "final format". Because there are overexposed and/or overexposed areas, shifted colors, and I can go to Lightroom, tweak SDR settings and make it look a lot more pleasant and, what's important, more  aligned with the HDR look, remove those overexposed areas etc.

So, put simply, I'm totally content with the HDR output (well, I think there's some space for improvement in certain aspects/scenarios), but not content with the SDR output, and for a large part of my circle I need to share exactly the SDR.

[BorisTheBlade]

@Andrii_s thank you for sharing your experience. The overall HDR workflow is nascent, and while there is an accepted industry standard for how to write HDR-capable JPEG files, many industry players are not yet compliant with it. They will eventually get there, but it will take a while. Companies like Apple, Google, and Adobe are at the forefront of that change, and others are slowly following.

In terms of how the HDR JPEGs work, they consist of two part in a nutshell:

• A base image, which is basically what the SDR "look" for that image is. When you try to display an HDR JPEG on an SDR-only screen, it's the base image that gets displayed.
• An HDR gain map, which, combined with the SDR base image, gives the HDR result.

Indigo JPEGs work this way, and you can preview how the SDR base image looks like by long-pressing on the image in the filmstrip. This will toggle the SDR view (with HDR being the default). I like to do this a lot to see just how much cooler HDR is. 🙂 When you share an image directly from Indigo this is what should get shared if HDR is not supported by your sharing destination platform. If you experience a different result, that is most likely on the platform you tried to share to. If however you see that the SDR image is too dark when viewed in Indigo, then that is on the look we are applying to get the SDR image and we need to investigate further.

Note that it is a very non-trivial problem to create HDR and SDR looks which will appear as "consistent". As @gregbenz pointed out, with the higher brightness treshold, HDR look will tend to appear brighter in many situations. But worse than that, human eyes take some time to adjust between SDR and HDR, so flipping between the two to compare will give you a different impression of the image than if you were just looking at a single version the whole time. 

[Andrii_s]

Hi @BorisTheBlade , thank you for your answer. Yes, I'm aware of the situation with HDR format adoption and I understand it can be challenging to make both images look consistent.

I just wanted to share my experience, that whereas I find the HDR photos taken with Indigo almost copacetic, SDR format has room for improvement.

And yes, I see the same result in the built-in photo viewer by long pressing on the photo.

E.g. some photos taken in the forest in shadow of the trees (let's say it's a "jungle" scenario) are underexposed and shadows fall into black. And some photos taken at bright daylight have overexposed areas, for example portraits where parts of the skin are exposed to sunlight are overly bright.

That's all, I thank all participants for the conversation, if there will be a possibility to review this case and maybe improve the SDR output, I would greatly appreciate.

[Andrii_s]

As a little addition, I think that SDR is important because most people can still see only the SDR images in most scenarios, so it's a bit like an Internet Explorer of our time) That's why I'm concerned, that I can't share the same beautiful photos (closely looking but without HDR's amazing contrast of course) with others who can't see the HDR, whereas I see that it's possible to make them more aligned by manual editing.

[ambitious_Explorer5534]

When will the application update be released?

[BorisTheBlade]

When will the application update be released?

By @ambitious_Explorer5534

An updated version of Indigo is in the works. I cannot share an exact timeline, but we are aiming to make the next release quite big in terms of improvements made to the app, with the accent on addressing the most common complaints from our users shared so far. Please stay tuned.

[nhan_8084]

Took a nice sunset photo today and attached the raw here: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/nk7i0ptjwko825htwn3on/IMG_9503.dng?rlkey=gjdh23t1bpvuc52j5679r5uua&st...

There are some moire seen in the attached crops, along with grid like artifacts that is most likely related to the lines artifacts you mentioned before in my samples @BorisTheBlade .  Is it possible to lessen the moire remosaic?  

I also attached the final post processed jpeg in hdr.

[oskar27]

I've looked, but haven't found my question/answer. How do I prevent Night Mode from turning my night photos into "day"? What adjustments I should make, and can I make them defaults?

[gregbenz]

If you mean that the exposure is too high, just being down exposure in the
LR edit. A brighter capture (without clipping) is always ideal to reduce
noise in the capture, but may be too bright artistically without darkening
in post.

[nhan_8084]

I don't think you can @oskar27 because it's a night mode algorithm that tends to use slower shutter, and that will make it brighter like most night modes.  Manual mode you can adjust ss/iso to your liking but won't implement night mode processing (stacking, tonemapping etc...) so it will be darker but not as "clean".

[BorisTheBlade]

I've looked, but haven't found my question/answer. How do I prevent Night Mode from turning my night photos into "day"? What adjustments I should make, and can I make them defaults?

By @oskar27

As Greg pointed out already, from the perspective of "best quality pixels", you want to expose the image as much as you can without clipping highlights. Then later you can darken the image in post, but may decide to keep some shadows brighter still, in which case they will be cleaner from noise. This is called Expose To The Right (ETTR) method, and is used in Indigo. Indigo's post-processing AI model which defines the final image "look" typically does try to render the image such that it appears similar to what our eyes could see in reality, but it can sometimes happen that it brightens or darkens a scene a bit too much. If you want to capture the image in Indigo which is darker, you can use Exposure Compensation control in Pro Controls (which will be added to the Auto capture in some form in one of the upcoming releases) to dial the exposure down, e.g., to -1 or something. Do note however that this will produce a darker image with noisier shadow areas, so if you later want to brighten things in editing you will have to deal with the excess noise.