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@BorisTheBlade Will indigo's future updates support iphone 11,12,13 which are now limited due to their RAM? If not then how does the same algorithm which Marc developed for google - HDR+ work on even low-end android phones?
By @powerful_Elixir5E29
Indigo requires a lot more memory because we are, for now, more interested in developing and testing cutting edge computational photography than we are in supporting older and older device - it is an experimental app, after all. We can reduce the amount of compute we do if the devices are less powerful and enable them to run Indigo, but that is less important for the time being.
@BorisTheBlade I forgot to mention a bug with Indigo and saw it again last night to remind me. I was using a led headlight last night to do some yard work and used Indigo to shoot some picture. This was late about 11 pm so I used the headlight to see, when Indigo was running it looks like the headlight caused some interference with the app as it was displaying vertical scrolling bands, like refresh rate bands. The bands are also captured in the picture as lines/bands. I noticed that this behavior also happened back in July when I had a magsafe battery bank 5000mAh attached while running Indigo, it showed banding across the viewfinder and also capturing had those bandings.
By @nhan_8084
This is LED banding - depending on the light flicker frequency, it may cause such lines (i.e., bands) to appear in the image. We'll look into how to improve the app in presence of flickering light sources.
Also this one regarding banding @BorisTheBlade
By @nhan_8084
Reliably detecting banding live is not easy. We'll look into it, but whatever we do is likely to increase the power consumption of the app, so we'll prioritize app performance and stability optimization and leave this in the backlog for now. FWIW, Apple is probably using a function of their ISP to detect banding, which would make it very power-efficient to use. Unfortunately, it is not exposed to 3rd pary apps.
@BorisTheBlade Thanks for the explanation! I will let you or the team know if other third party app such as Halide experiences banding with led lights or magsafe powerbank. If they do not, then perhaps the team can put in a changelog to caution against using led lighting and power banks causes banding, OR if possible, see if it is possible to have single frame raw so no power is consumed vs having computational raw?
By @nhan_8084
The anti-banding in iPhone is tied to using Apple's auto-exposure algorithm. If a 3rd party app usses Apple's AE, then anti-banding is probably available. Indigo is developing a custom AE since Apple's exposure tends to be higher than what we like, and because of that anti-banding function is not available.
@BorisTheBlade Will this update primarily be bug fixes and performance improvements?
By @????????_4983
We are working on adding some user-requested features, such as DNG-only capture. While that sounds easy, in reality it is a bit tricky to do with the right experience. There will also be selfie mirroring, a far easier thing to add. A lot of improvements are under-the-hood as performance and stability are still our number 1 priorities.
@BorisTheBlade I took a 5x shot, handheld, as stable with two hands as I could, seems like OIS/EIS is def not as good with the tele as the main. Is it possible to fix?
another note, 5x has a lot of artifacts similar to stock google camera, weird chroma blotching that is due to improper noise models used. If I use a custom noise model profile it fixes it in google camera, but I do not know how to even go about that for Indigo. See attached crops for areas of artifacts.
By @nhan_8084
Thank you for sharing. On the stability of the 5x shot, did you use Photo or Night mode? If you used Photo mode then there is no OIS, as that is only available in the Night mode. Furthermore, 3rd parties have no ways to influence the OIS: it works as it works and is not tunable. In either mode EIS is used only for stabilization of the viewfinder, but the processing later "stabilizes" implicitly by using aligning & merging of the frames. We'll keep tuning those algorithms.
Regarding noise, we are updating the noise calibration for all lenses on all supported devices. It's still TBD how much impact that will have on the results.
Overall, note that 5x camera is a much poorer performer than the 1x, which is why Apple is under-the-hood often silently switching from 5x to 1x to improve image quality, for example in low light situations.
@BorisTheBlade That shot was using non night as it's bright day. Should I use night mode regardless to use the algorithm for align and proper merge? I didn't know those artifacts were caused from improper merge and alignment! As mentioned, those artifacts are fixed by using custom noise model values when I use google camera mod apk version on Pixels and non-pixel devices. Glad to hear noise profiles are being improved upon.
In regard to the 5x switching to the 1x crop, yes all OEM does that unless you force it in pro modes typically since main has faster aperature and bigger sensor. Although I have had good experience with apple's stock camera not switching to main unless it's extremely low lit scene, but then again who uses tele at those scenes!
By @nhan_8084
The only reason I asked whether it was Photo or Night mode is because of OIS - Photo mode doesn't have it and Night mode does. This is a challenging scene because the singer and much of the stage are shaded while some of the scene is directly lit by the sun and very bright. Looking at the results, there are a few possible reasons why it didn't end up as good: 5x camera quality, exposure chosen by Indigo AE may be too low, noise may need to be better managed, etc. I suspect that for a scene like this we need an HDR align & merge which uses bracketed frames and merges them, rather than using the same exposure as the current algorithm does. We are working on that, but it will take some time.
Came across this reddit thread on how Pixel 9 series does zooms @BorisTheBlade : https://www.reddit.com/r/GooglePixel/comments/1flk1ia/indepth_analysis_of_the_9_pro_camera_at_variou...
This was somewhat of what I was trying to ask of Indigo's team regarding to applying SR at various zooms. Please take a look and see if it's even possible for iPhones going forward.
By @nhan_8084
We will continue to explore ways to improve zoom quality on Indigo. Since we do not control the HW side of things (unlike Google), we will also need to react to how camera hardware on iPhone develops over time.
@BorisTheBlade thank you, makes a lot of sense when app needs access to the device hw components. Have adobe imaging team ever considered releasing a phone since the team has VAST knowledge about photography? Speaking from a business aspect, it wouldn't need to be high end costing $800-$1k plus I wouldn't imagine since Adobe can reach out to a ODM, similar to what Nothing is doing, and making a sub $600 phone and the software of Indigo will be vastly more than capable of what many oem are doing. It def won't be Adobe's main source of income for sure, more of like a Indiegogo crowdfund campaign. I'd be definitely up for it!
By @nhan_8084
Adobe is not a HW company, and spinning a HW-focused business division from scratch is an extremely challenging (and expensive) endeavor. I would not be holding my breath for it. Also, as someone who worked on HW before, I am happy to operate in the SW-only world: yes, it has challenges since the sandbox you have to play in was not defined by you, but that is also liberating - knowing there are things you simply have to work around is oftentimes easier than figuring out how you are going to fix them in HW and/or SW and/or both.
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