Using Lightroom CC and Lightroom Classic CC

[Michael Boreham]

Can I playback what I think this means in practice for me, to check my understanding?

I have an iMac which has Classic and LRCC, and an MBP which has LRCC, two iPhones and one iPad which all have Lightroom Mobile.

I am very new to LRCC and in the process of migrating my 70k/600GB photos from Classic to LRCC one year/subject at a time (to preserve my structure) . I believe I will be able to do everything I need to do in LRCC on both computers.

So in theory I could just delete Classic from the iMac, put the Classic catalog and masters in a drawer (or erase the drive) and live in LRCC. I think this is what you imply Adobe would suggest?

Alternatively I could maintain Classic as a live up-to date but in-the-background backup. With sync turned on, new photos added to LRCC will appear in Classic and I can move them into the folder structure and it stays current. Maybe a bit wasteful of time and storage, but it feels better than abandoning Classic completely. For one thing the Classic masters structure is my structure but the LRCC originals structure is date based and cuts across my structure.

Thanks!

[99jon]

If you are happy that LRCC will meet all of your needs you could simply pay for the 1TB plan – without LR Classic once your migration is complete.

The plan with LR Classic only comes with 20Gb of storage so you would need to purchase additional space in the cloud.

Maybe archive your existing masters in Classic and then make an independent backup going forward for all new images imported into LRCC.

[Michael Boreham]

Thanks for the replies.

At this stage of my experience with LRCC, the combination of retaining Photoshop and having Classic as an up to date option/fallback, with its full set of originals in my chosen structure and its extra capability, feels worth the extra for the Photography Plan with 1TB.

If Armageddon happened and all I had to recover with was the local originals, I would much rather have my Classic referenced originals in my structure, than the LRCC totally date based set.

I may feel differently about this down the road.

My main reason for posting was wanting to understand the warnings not to try and use both on the same computer. I am unclear why this is advised against, as long as I treat LRCC as prime and Classic as an occasional alternative/fallback.

[99jon]

I have experienced metadata conflicts using both LRCC & LR Classic on the same machine. Keywords are known not to sync but take care if you add captions or titles to your metadata. That is where I have seen problems.

[Michael Boreham]

Thanks for that...I don't use Keywords (should do I know) and don't do much adding titles or captions but will watch out.

[JP Hess]

My experience from using the two programs on the same computer is that you shouldn't worry yourself about trying to "force" synchronization of edits between the two programs. If you do you will drive yourself crazy. Just don't worry about it and you'll be fine. In my case, sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.

[edd39722359]

I have tried to keep one foot in each version of Lightroom but is simply does not work well.  The issue is that the sync has some serious issues.  I tried a fresh conversion from scratch over the weekend with the latest 'fixed' version only to find missing photos, tags etc..

You CAN completely, logically, duplicate the folder construct you currently have in LRClassic into LRCC.  The key is to create collections for every folder you currently have in LRClassic and put them in collection sets that mirror youor folders. Then migrate your catalog.

LRCC will create an Album for each Collection and a folder for each collection set.

This is easier than you think.  In LRClassic/disk, I have 1 file folder per year containing numerous folders each with names like '2017-10-12 - Trip to Zoo'  Some times, there are folders inside of those.  For example for weddings (rehearsal, reception …).

I would create a collection set called 2017 and then select all the folders in the year 2017 file folder and tell LR to create a collection for each of them inside the 2017 collections set.  Takes about 5 minutes per yeas of photos.

Then sync takes care of the rest.  Including features like randomly loosing photos, randomly loosing meta data, taking twice the space because LRCC and lightroom classic cant share a directory, never knowing which photos are real on the web or locally and which phots now only have 'smart' previews etc....

[Michael Boreham]

Yes this is how I am doing it, exporting each year as a catalog from a collection set, to preserve my Classic structure in LRCC.

I anticipate keeping the same structure in both ongoing.

[Michael Boreham]

I have now completed the process edd39722359 describes. I created Collections and Collections sets which completely mirrored the referenced Masters, and exported each as a catalog, then imported to LRCC. All has worked great, but I am now pondering how to manage syncing with Classic as new material is added to LRCC by iPhone and camera import.

My very simple understanding of the sync processes is:

Collections is how you sync from Classic to LRCC

The LRCC Ecosystem folder is how you sync from LRCC to Classic.

If this is right, then for my intention to use LRCC as prime, I could now delete all the Collections and Collection sets in Classic, they have served their purpose and will probably cause confusion ongoing. New material will appear in the Ecosystem folder from where I can move it into the right place in the Classic structure, including moving the originals on disk.

If I do delete all the collections I think I understand that I will lose the opportunity to occasionally edit in Classic and have the edits sync back to LRCC. Is that correct?

Would new material arriving in the Classic Ecosystem Folder be the originals as imported into LRCC, or would it include edits I did in LRCC?

At this point in time, I have just (six hours ago) turned Classic syncing back on after completing the LRCC import and upload process. The Collections are still present with the sync boxes turned on. It is going through a massive syncing process which seems to be creating "Sync'd Duplicates" of everything. The number of masters in the referenced folder is unchanged but the item count in the Masters section is going up as the duplicates are added. Each master file is acquiring two thumbnails.  But the item count in the Collection section is not changing. Does what is happening here makes sense? and if I leave it all to finish syncing will all the duplicates be removed? Maybe this screenshot of the top left of Classic helps:

The actual number of masters is 71857 (which is All Photos minus duplicates in the above).

My basic question is, should I abort the sync and delete all the Collections? or let it finish?

The sensible answer is probably let it finish, but if the correct thing for my intended use is to delete collections anyway, I might as well do it now?

Thanks very much for any input!

[99jon]

Normally during a full migration the sync’d collections would get automatically replaced e.g. smart previews originally sync’d from collections get replaced with originals downloaded from the cloud.

However this will be different because you are breaking up the task by exporting separate catalogs.

Deleting the old collections manually can be done before or after sync has completed.

[john beardsworth]

Let it finish, but don't imagine that the duplicates will be removed - they won't, you'll just have lots of duplicates. My suggestion is that once this process has finished, see if you can figure out why all these duplicates have occurred. Review just a few examples in detail - that should tell you what has happened and give you an idea about how to resolve the issue.

What is the urgency to delete collections? Synced LrClassic collections are LRCC albums. Unsynced LrClassic collections are only in LrClassic - if you commit to LRCC, you may not need these any longer.

"If I do delete all the collections I think I understand that I will lose the opportunity to occasionally edit in Classic and have the edits sync back to LRCC. Is that correct?"

No, because Classic doesn't just rely on collections for syncing. It did at first, but notice the All Synced Photos section in the Catalog panel. Photos can be synced, and shown here, without being in a collection.

[Michael Boreham]

Thanks 99jon and John,

"..........see if you can figure out why all these duplicates have occurred. Review just a few examples in detail - that should tell you what has happened and give you an idea about how to resolve the issue."

It might be because before I did the upload of my full-size photos (600GB) I had an interim setup where I had only uploaded the smart previews to the Cloud. (I could stay within 20GB doing that). These appeared as duplicates in LRCC and I deleted them in LRCC. I assumed they were gone but maybe that is what Classic is now downloading and causing the duplicates.

I didn't mention this before because I thought they were gone!

Sounds like when it finishes syncing I can delete these from Classic and get back to the right numbers.

[john beardsworth]

The main thing is - don't rush. Let it finish, see if the explanation is convincing, and double check. One of my biggest criticisms of LRCC is that it lulls people into a sense of false security, so ensure you have a proper backup before deleting anything.

[Michael Boreham]

Thanks. I will wait it out and report back next week.

Down to 19,800 now, but says 38,572 pending in the sync pref tab.

So may be the week after!

I am well backed up.

[Michael Boreham]

UPDATE:

I waited two more days, but realised something was very wrong with my Classic Library, so aborted. Things wrong:

1. I had 60,000 Sync'd Duplicates and rising.

2. My "Lightroom CC" Ecosystem folder was filling up with the whole 70,000 photos again.

I think the cause was that, as a separate exercise, before I went full-in to Lightroom CC, I uploaded all 70,000 as smart previews from Classic by creating syncing Collection Sets in Classic. When I subsequently uploaded the full-size originals in LRCC I could see in Sync Status that I had duplicates, an original and a smart preview. So I deleted the smart previews from within LRCC. While this was happening the Collection Sets in Classic were still set to sync. I am not clear whether this situation explains what my Classic was doing?

I experimentally deleted a few of the Sync'd Duplicates in Classic and unsurprisingly the originals were deleted from the Cloud and hence from LRCC. So I was not going to able to eliminate the duplicates without wrecking my LRCC Library.  Maybe at this point I should have been aiming keep all the new sync'd stuff coming in from LRCC and deleting the original masters?

At this point I decided to write off everything I had done so far as a learning experience (not least why Adobe recommends not to have Classic sync turned on if using LRCC!). So I emptied my Cloud, and replaced the messed up Classic Library with a backup from before I started using LRCC, so this restored Library had never had sync turned on. Using this non-syncing Classic Library I am in the process of exporting year Collection Sets and importing them to LRCC.

As I said earlier my intent is to live in LRCC, but to keep the Classic Library up to date for features like Faces and as an archive. I do not intend to do edits in Classic so no requirement to sync back to LRCC.

Which is best way to keep Classic up to date?

1. Leave Sync turned off. Add new material by exporting "originals+settings" from LRCC and importing to Classic. My volume is small enough to do this on a monthly basis.

2. Turn on Sync and new material from LRCC will appear in the Lightroom CC Ecosystem folder in Classic. Since the Collection Sets in Classic do not have sync turned on no smart previews will go out from Classic.

Option 1 feels the safe way, and consistent with Adobe advice. Option 2 is the more elegant way and seems to be supported by Adobe but not recommended.

Am I understanding the situation correctly and which option would you advise?

Thanks very much for any advice.

[99jon]

I think option 2 should work. But it is only possible to sync one catalog using your Adobe ID. As you are exporting separate catalogs to build up your cloud storage I think on reflection that is the cause of the problem. I think the eco system is unable to match with smart preview/originals because the migration is coming from a different source catalog. As you are fully backed up, I would suggest trying the deletion of originals from folders and collections from classic before starting the migration. Then turn on sync in classic to get the original downloads from the cloud.

[Michael Boreham]

Thanks very much 99jon,

I can see the separate catalogs explanation makes sense. It is a frequently recommended way of migrating to Lightroom CC because (as I understand it) it enables recreating the Classic structure in LRCC. If you migrate the whole catalog from Classic all the albums from Classic appear in a single list in LRCC. Doing it one year at time means they stay within their year. Anyway I have nearly done it all separately now and all seems to be well.

So what you suggest is, when LRCC has completed, I should delete all the originals and collections in Classic, but leave the folders, and then turn on sync in Classic. It should download everything from LRCC with no duplicates, and stay in sync as new material and edits are done in LRCC. You mention leaving the empty folders in place, would that enable the LRCC albums to go into the right year?

Would an alternative be to create a fresh Classic catalog and create empty folders, then turn sync on and the same thing happen?

As you say, since I am well backed up I can experiment. What I really don't want to happen is that Classic deletes anything from the Cloud, as happened in https://www.lightroomqueen.com/community/threads/classic-deleted-cc-cloud-originals.35019/ and would have happened to me if I had deleted duplicates in Classic..

Thanks again.

EDIT I would like Classic and its masters to keep their current structure. Would that happen with your suggestion or would it adopt the LRCC originals structure?

[99jon]

There is no need to leave empty folders. The structure in Classic will depend on your preference settings - LR Sync Tab.

You can specify a folder or external drive and (optionally) create dated sub-folders based on capture date.

[Michael Boreham]

Thanks again,

So when I first turn on sync in the empty Classic, it will download everything to the Lightroom Ecosystem Folder, either by date sub folders or otherwise. I think either way my current manually created current subject and year structure in Classic would not be the result.

Many of photos are scans, or photos sent me by other people without EXIF data. My current Classic and its masters has everything in appropriate folders, but my LRCC Originals folder, and I suspect the new Classic structure would cut across this. Might be a good reason for doing my option 1. But I can experiment with option 2 and go back to option 1 very easily.

Thanks for all the help.

[99jon · Accepted solution]

Yes your subject folders won’t work. Those originals coming into Classic from the cloud will go into a single named location or dated sub-folders.

I’m only suggesting deleting masters going forward for those you intend to add to LRCC and have prepared an export catalog ready to migrate. The rules to remember:

1. You can delete any original from the cloud and the original in your classic folder is not touched
2. If you delete a sync’d master in LR Classic that will also delete the original from the cloud. But the master will remain in the folder if you only choose to remove from the Classic catalog and not delete from disk when you see the warning.

It’s best to experiment with your next batch and make sure you are comfortable.

[Michael Boreham]

Thanks again, very helpful. Things are dropping into place! (I think)

My Classic structure is about 25 year/subject folders, each containing about 20 subfolders of photos, ie about 500 folders containing photos. Can I ask if I had migrated everything to LRCC as a single catalog then these 500 folders would have appeared as a flat list of albums in LRCC, requiring significant work to put back into 25 year/subject folders? OTOH they would all sync correctly with Classic.

If the above is right, I basically have three choices:

1. Start all over and migrate in one catalog and do the necessary organising in LRCC.

2. Create a new empty Classic catalog and let it download from the Cloud and accept the resulting structure according to the preference setting.

3. Keep Classic not sync'd and update it manually (option 1 earlier).

PS sorry for many edits on this post.

[99jon]

No those 500 folders would not migrate to LRCC. But if you were to make the folders into corresponding collections; the collections would migrate as albums.

[Michael Boreham]

Thanks....and if I put the 500 Collections in Collection Sets which matched my 25 year/subject titles, would they go across to LRCC in a single whole catalog migration?

[99jon]

I don't think collection sets migrate. But you can create folders in LRCC which are the equivalent of collection sets.

[Michael Boreham]

Thanks, so if I do the whole catalog in one migration I would need to organise the 500 albums in LRCC into my Year/Subject folders. Not too daunting if some subfolder renaming is done in Classic before the migration to make it easy to put them in the right Year/Subject folder when they arrive in LRCC.

I will have a think. Of the three options I mentioned earlier I think it has to be either start all over with a single whole catalog migration or stay on current course of not syncing Classic and updating it manually. The other option of a new Classic catalog downloaded from the cloud is not appealing.

Thanks again.