P: Export As: fix the "embed color profile" checkbox

[D Fosse]

This checkbox has never worked as it should, but now it's more broken than ever.

It's supposed to do two things. In addition to the obvious, embedding the profile, it should also turn on the color managed view, using the system monitor profile to display the file correctly in the chosen document color space.

At the moment it doesn't use the monitor profile. People with standard monitors may not immediately notice this, but with a wide gamut monitor it becomes very obvious (oversaturated). It behaves like Save For Web with Preview set to "Monitor Color".

In the old Save For Web, there were two separate settings - an "embed profile"-box, and a rolldown for "Preview". Setting this rolldown to "use document profile" turned on the color managed view (and this still works reliably). It actually makes perfect sense to roll these two into one, so that's fine. But it doesn't work.

One more thing: Please make the "embed color profile"-box checked by default! Or at least please make it stick once you check it! As it is now, you have to check it every time.

I realize that with most modern browsers, embedding the profile is not strictly necessary. The browser will assign sRGB if it's missing. But these images may be used for other things too. And at 3kB, you can no longer make the argument that an sRGB profile has any significant impact on file sizes. If you need to strip the profile you can still do that - but embedding it maximizes the chances of correct representation of the file.

Plus the added advantage that having a color managed Export image will actually match what you see in Photoshop. This alone should eliminate a heap of user confusion.

[Gixxxa75]

When using "export as" putting a tick in the "convert to sRGB" seems to display and generate a file without an ICC profile , rather than converting it to sRGB.

Adobe Photoshop Version: 22.5.1 20210907.r.441 de74e1a x64
Number of Launches: 153
Operating System: Windows 10 64-bit

[Per Berntsen]

"Convert to sRGB" does convert to sRGB, but you have to check Embed Profile as well.

This should be checked by default, but unfortunately it's not.

[Gixxxa75]

Per Berntsen, OK, yes your right. But the preview looks doesnt look right is that normal behaviour?

[Per Berntsen]

I'm seeing that too, looks like a bug.

If you use Legacy Export As, the preview is correct, and it also brings back the 1 - 100 quality slider for jpgs.

Go to Edit > Preferences > Export, and check the box at the bottom of the dialog.

[Gixxxa75]

Im opening up some untagged Tiffs and assigning a custom ICC profile for the scanner upon opening them.(this is all I want to do them just asign the profile to the file). If I close the file straight away (by clicking on the x in the tab) Im not getting the save option coming up, the little asterix is visible in the tab for the file telling me there are changes to save but it just closes the file. Im pretty sure previous versions picked up the addition of the ICC profile and let me save them.

Adobe Photoshop Version: 22.5.1 20210907.r.441 de74e1a x64
Number of Launches: 153
Operating System: Windows 10 64-bit
Version: 10 or greater 10.0.19041.1202

[Wolf Eilers]

There's something about the Export As dialog that troubles me and I suspect it's related to the bug reported by DFosse. If I check the Convert to sRGB box the preview shows incorrect colours. Only if I uncheck the Convert to sRGB option will the Export preview match the origininating Photoshop document but that would result in a JPG exported with the document profile embedded rather than sRGB.

See the following image with the Photoshop document on the left showing intended colours and the Export dialog on the right with 'incorrect' preview colours.

[D Fosse]

There's still something weird going on. Here's an Adobe RGB original, on a wide gamut monitor. Why is it desaturated when unconverted and un-color managed? It shouldn't be. These should all be identical (or at least almost identical, save for the very small difference between monitor and Adobe RGB):

Save For Web still does it correctly, as it has the whole time.

[davescm]

"Save For Web still does it correctly, as it has the whole time."

...and that's why I continue to use Save for Web and hope it never disappears. This bug has my vote.

Dave

[D Fosse]

Oops, I missed something there: the first one, if truly not color managed, would obviosly be over-saturated. But it isn't, so that's wrong too.

But the behavior that Wolf shows, should be fixed in 23.0 -? That's what I saw in the 22.x versions. Are you on 23.0, Wolf?

Anyway, I think I figured the current behavior out. It does make some sort of sense after all. It's similar to the "Preview" rolldown in Save For Web, only baked into the "embed profile" checkbox.

When the box is unchecked, it uses the equivalent of "Internet Standard" preview. What this does is to assign sRGB, but it still converts correctly into the monitor profile. And in fact, this is how web browsers behave today. They do assign sRGB to all untagged material, and then convert into the monitor profile. 

When the "embed profile" box is checked, it switches to the "use document profile" preview.

So, while it doesn't work the way I initially expected, it does indeed work in a way that is actually useful.  I hereby declare this bug officially fixed 😉

So that leaves Wolf. I hope he just accidentally opened an old PS version.

[davescm]

I still prefer the more straightforward, or at least more obvious, Save for Web.

You mention changes in v23 - have you also noticed that you can once again use Save or Save a Copy (not just export) to save a png with a color profile. That was a problem earlier this year, on Windows versions, when the option to include the profile was greyed.

Dave

[Chain83]

100% agree! The Export As dialog has several problems that they really should adress. The menu indicates that "Export As" should replace the older "Save for Web", but right now there are only 2 situations where it's worth using Export As:

• The image size is really large (would cause save for web to open slowly, especially if set to PNG).
• You need one of the unique features;
  • PNG-8 with 8-bit transparency
  • Exporting multiple sizes at once
  • Artboards

Outside those, I still recommend everyone use Save for Web for optimizing/exporting images for web use.

One more thing: Please make the "embed color profile"-box checked by default! 

[...]

Plus the added advantage that having a color managed Export image will actually match what you see in Photoshop. This alone should eliminate a heap of user confusion.

By @D Fosse

[D Fosse]

---

@davescm wrote:

have you also noticed that you can once again use Save or Save a Copy (not just export) to save a png with a color profile.

---

Yes, noticed that too. All in all we're getting there, if slowly 😉

But as for the Export module, I really don't understand this. I'm all for replacing the aging SFW with something more modern and streamlined, but they can't release it and then let it sit unfinished for years. Once you put it out there, you have to finish the job in a reasonable amount of time.

Anyway, the rumor is that they're in the process of rewriting it now. Maybe it'll come out all shiny and new.

[Wolf Eilers]

I can assure all that I am using the Ps 23 release and can further proclaim that I don't have the slightest idea what the Export As previews are trying to show. I use dual wide gammut monitors calibrated with a SpyderPro. I do want to stress that I'm not complaing about what Export produces -- all good on that front -- but those previews ...

Here's one more Export As mystery that must be a bug, namely 16 bit versus 8 bit. I typically edit images in either ProPhotoRGB or AdobeRGB 16-bit but I use Export As to produce JPG images for external purposes. The Export session below shows the source AdobeRGB 16-bit image on the left with the Export dialog on the right. The Export uses a 2-Up view with the left view checking the Convert to sRGB and Embed Color Profile boxes while the second (right) view checks only the Embed Color Profile box:

 

Now in Photoshop let's convert the source document's mode to 8-bit and do an identical Export As session. I expect the same preview results but instead I get this:

Notice the change on the second (right) preview. Why does 16-bit vs 8-bit make a difference? Needless to say Save for Web has no such preview issues.

[D Fosse]

OK, that is weird. That does not happen here. I've replicated your steps exactly, and it just doesn't happen.

The only time I get an incorrect view is when I have both boxes unchecked - and as I said, that makes sense because it mimics the way all web browsers work today.

Any other way I get a correct view - Adobe RGB, sRGB, 8 bits, 16 bits.

I can't explain what you're seeing...

[J453]

Thanks @D Fosse There's an internal ticket to improve the embed color profile workflow.

[D Fosse]

Thank you, Jeffrey 🙂

All I want is to not have to check the box every time. The rest seems all good now, at least on my end.

[John Metzger]

Request received and agreed that you should not have to check the box every time. It's currently working "as designed" (AKA not a bug) but we get the request for a more logical, intuitive default setting.